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All this statement does is identify your own anti-intelletualism and narrow-mindedness. Referring to ideas as "intellectual masturbation" is simply a lazy way to refuse engagement with those ideas.
What ideas? "Moving beyond the Left" is empty phrase-mongering, so there's nothing to engage with.
"I have declared war on the rich who prosper on our poverty, the politicians who lie to us with smiling faces, and all the mindless, heartless robots who protect them and their property." - Assata Shakur
Why do anarchists not consider themselves part of "the Left"?
I see. So you don't actually know what we're talking about.
That statement would only be true if there wasn't a catalogue of things written, discussed and done in order to do just that.
Perhaps you might consider the possibility that the reason you have arrived at your views is because you haven't taken the time to learn about what is going on in the left.
Please don't mistake your ignorance of current affairs for "empty phrase mongering."
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That is false — unless you analyse the failures revolutionary left and come to the conclusion that capitalism is natural, moral, etc., that is. What it is, at best, is 'moving beyond the historical experience of the dominant revolutionary leftist currents to develop a new revolutionary leftist current' as opposed to moving beyond 'the left' as a whole.
Yeah, a circle is round and this is circular reasoning.
The left-right dichotomy stems from the French revolution as you probably know, with progressives and radicals on the left and conservatives and reactionaries on the right. This evolved into a system of political classification where the the left-wing refers to more social equality, and the right-wing to more social inequality.
With on the left-wing of the political spectrum...
Revolutionary left: egalitarianism (communism, anarchism);
Far-Left (incl. revleft): far reaching equality, but not necessarily egalitarianism ('democratic socialism')
moderate left-wing: government intervention to create equality of opportunity (social-democracy, sometimes social-liberalism)
On the right-wing of the political spectrum...
moderate right-wing: some government intervention for a social safety net (conservative liberalism, social liberalism)
right-wing: affirming social inequality, government scarcely active in redistribution of wealth (liberal conservatism, right-wing libertarianism, Christian democracy)
far-right: affirming social inequality, or enhancing social inequality (fascism, ultra-nationalism, ultra-conservatism, para-fascism)
So unless you reject socialism, anarchism, communism, you are part of 'the Left' whether you like it or not.
k
pew pew pew
That's one way to read it. The other is how I intended it, to imply there are no substantive ideas behind the phrase-mongering. BCBM said it's about praxis, but "moving beyond the Left" is a silly way to talk about moving away from past failures of praxis.
"I have declared war on the rich who prosper on our poverty, the politicians who lie to us with smiling faces, and all the mindless, heartless robots who protect them and their property." - Assata Shakur
The term 'leftism' in the context of this discussion is used to describe a specific set of experiences, ideas and practices within the left.
While your apparent strict obedience to language is technically correct, alas, language evolves, and unfortunately in this particular instance when referring to 'leftism' and 'leftists' we are not talking about twee definitions, but about something entirely different.
I was under the impression that you understood how the term 'leftism' was being employed here. Apparently that is not the case.
None of that has anything to do with what we're talking about.
You might very well be flippant about it, but since you have a) failed to understand what we are talking about and b) given support to a post that directly admits having no knowledge of the ideas being discussed, you may do you well to take my advice.
Last edited by The Feral Underclass; 10th July 2014 at 12:01.
But that statement is ridiculous when you consider the sheer scale of literature that is written on the subject. The only way you could possibly think it is not substantiated as an idea is if you have never taken the time to actually look at what is being said. Either that or you are being duplicitous.
Why is it? If the idea is to "move beyond the left", surely then saying that is absolutely to the point...I mean, you've reduced this discussion down to one about the relevancy of four words. This is precisely the level of engagement that sections of the left have with these ideas. It's tragic.
TAT can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he is alluding to the kinds of thought which contend that the modern left has become stale, tedious and nobody outside of leftist circles gives a fuck about anything most modern leftists have to say. Maybe he has a point.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
- Hanlon's Razor
If it's ridiculous, do you have specific texts that you think are most helpful? This is Learning, so feel free to share some.
"I have declared war on the rich who prosper on our poverty, the politicians who lie to us with smiling faces, and all the mindless, heartless robots who protect them and their property." - Assata Shakur
Do you not think it would have been more appropriate for you to begin from this position of wanting to learn, rather than from one of intransigence?
The most familiar texts are probably from Endnotes, but also SIC Collective have written some awesome stuff, there are great articles in Ephemera, Scott Nappalos has written some interesting stuff, Plan C have put out texts, as did Collective Action and the FARJ.
Also, I quite rate stuff that is written in Uprising by Revolutionary Initiative in Canada, although I'm not sure how popular that view is.
More or less, yes.
I quite like the sentiment of that article.
one was posted on the first page of this thread
'heavens above, how awful it is to live outside the law - one is always expecting what one rightly deserves.'
petronius, the satyricon
Is there even really a 'Left' anymore anyway?
Come little children, I'll take thee away, into a land of enchantment, come little children, the times come to play, here in my garden of magic.
"I'm tired of this "isn't humanity neat," bullshit. We're a virus with shoes."-Bill Hicks.
I feel the Bern and I need penicillin
I'd have to say no in my opinion, at least not very large if you can call it existent in the USA. Outside 'Murica I'd have to say the left exists. All based on things I've read and seen. I've met no other anarchists or communists in my area, almost everyone is laid neatly to the right.
"But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge." ~Mikhail Bakunin
First I would like to apologize for responding so late. I've been busy.
The state= The tool that the government uses to control. The government= The people behind the control.
Yes, I've heard of this argument. Sadly, Marxism (Or whatever you want to call it) defies human nature. Therefor they must keep control of their citizens.
They have good intentions, but anytime you control another person, you're harming them. Even if you want to help them.
I'm tired right now so I don't know if I'm making sense but I hope you figure out what I mean anyway.
(By the way, Had to remove the link so I could post this.)
No I meant it has burned off its radi-fad shell and actually become a thing worth noting not that the ideas are new but shit tends to resurface over time and there is new applicable significance to a lot of things as we discover new revelations about our global situation like how the biosphere is gonna probably die before the sun swallows us. That entire sphere that tends to overlap and flirt with one another, nihilism, communisation, [email protected], post-left, post-civ and anti-civ, individualist has become a bit more serious. I don't know why it seems more genuine now than before other than its either me or its what we now know that we didn't know 10-20 years ago not that I would have been reading stirner or post-civ stuff when I was five yo anyways but still
"whatever they might make would never be the same as that world of dark streets and bright dreams"
http://youtu.be/g-PwIDYbDqI
You've only got to look at Leftism in practice to know that real revolutionaries should have nothing to do with it. How can a Left Communist or an Anarchist be put in the same bracket as groups that support Nationalisations and so-called 'Anti-Imperialism'?
“ The guard is tired. I propose that you close the meeting and let everybody go home. ”
Because that's how classification works. If we're talking about ideology of politics, left communists and anarchists fall in the same brackets as fascists.... So therefore these are not ideologies and politics?
pew pew pew
Tf are you talking about man?
Come little children, I'll take thee away, into a land of enchantment, come little children, the times come to play, here in my garden of magic.
"I'm tired of this "isn't humanity neat," bullshit. We're a virus with shoes."-Bill Hicks.
I feel the Bern and I need penicillin
I know lots of socialists who want to turn back the clock.
"It is slaves, struggling to throw off their chains, who unleash the movement whereby history abolishes masters." - Raoul Vaneigem
"Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality will have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things." - Karl Marx
"What distinguishes reform from revolution is not that revolution is violent, but that it links insurrection and communisation." - Gilles Dauvé
