Thread: Salem Witch Trials as "real" in 2013-2014 film and television

Results 1 to 20 of 22

  1. #1
    Join Date Sep 2002
    Posts 6,039
    Rep Power 59

    Default Salem Witch Trials as "real" in 2013-2014 film and television

    So I originally planned on writing an essay about this but I'm not up for it at the moment.

    Basically, I think it's more than a pattern at this point that four highly popular films and television shows over the last 12 months have been based on the premise that the Salem witch trials were real - i.e., that there were actually witches there.

    There's Sleepy Hollow, a show I really like that has a lot of early U.S. mythology going on; The Conjuring, one of the better horror movies that has come out recently, where the main villain-ghost-whatever was an actual baby-sacrificing witch during the trials; American Horror Story, which I'm assuming most of you know about, where the white witches are descended from those of the witch trials; and Salem, a show that just started recently but is pretty good, where actual witches started the witch trials for their own nefarious purposes or some shit like that.

    Okay, maybe that last one isn't that popular, but still, you know the saying, once is happenstance, two is coincidence, three times is enemy action. I don't know what that would make four times but this is definitely a thing.

    I have my own theories as to why this is - I think they're all nebulously related to what I think is a pretty marked upsurge of salient feminism at least in the United States, but if anyone else sees other patterns I'd like to hear more theories.

    Oh, also, the three villains or antagonists of James Wan's last three directed movies since 2009, which together have grossed about $575m, have been: The Lipstick Demon, the Woman in Black (not that shitty Daniel Radcliffe movie) and the aforementioned Salem witch. I also have to admit I really, really liked Insidious, disliked the sequel less than most people, and The Conjuring has really grown on me over the last six months or so.
    "to become a philosopher, start by walking very slowly"
  2. #2
    Join Date May 2008
    Location Everett, WA, USA
    Posts 2,467
    Organisation
    Communist Labor Party
    Rep Power 68

    Default

    I have my own theories as to why this is - I think they're all nebulously related to what I think is a pretty marked upsurge of salient feminism at least in the United States
    Could you explain this theory a little more?
    "I have declared war on the rich who prosper on our poverty, the politicians who lie to us with smiling faces, and all the mindless, heartless robots who protect them and their property." - Assata Shakur
  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Danielle Ni Dhighe For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Join Date Sep 2002
    Posts 6,039
    Rep Power 59

    Default

    Could you explain this theory a little more?
    I don't have it fully worked out in my head but it seems like it's sort of a mirror into the creators' minds about this upsurge. Where the witch is the antagonist it would represent male apprehension about feminism and where they are the protagonist it would represent a sort of counter-narrative to that.

    Obviously it's a half-formed theory but the basics are there. It's obviously not a parallel for McCarthyism any more; I think gender definitely plays a central role in why there would be so much recent media based off almost exactly the same premise and more specifically the particular form it has taken in these shows/films. But gender throughlines like this also are not an area that I'm particularly skilled in engaging with in a "literary criticism" kind of way.
    "to become a philosopher, start by walking very slowly"
  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to synthesis For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Join Date Sep 2013
    Posts 1,168
    Organisation
    First-World Lepidan Communist International (Fight Back!)
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    I don't have it fully worked out in my head but it seems like it's sort of a mirror into the creators' minds about this upsurge. Where the witch is the antagonist it would represent male apprehension about feminism and where they are the protagonist it would represent a sort of counter-narrative to that.

    Obviously it's a half-formed theory but the basics are there. It's obviously not a parallel for McCarthyism any more; I think gender definitely plays a central role in why there would be so much recent media based off almost exactly the same premise and more specifically the particular form it has taken in these shows/films. But gender throughlines like this also are not an area that I'm particularly skilled in engaging with in a "literary criticism" kind of way.
    I advise you read "The Devil in the Shape of a Woman" by Carol Karsen.
  7. #5
    Join Date Sep 2002
    Posts 6,039
    Rep Power 59

    Default

    I advise you read "The Devil in the Shape of a Woman" by Carol Karsen.
    It looks pretty interesting from a historical perspective but I'm really referring more to commentary on the media itself and the social/political implications thereof; I guess I should have been more specific about what I meant by "literary criticism." (For example, the billion treatises that have been written about the "rape/revenge" genre of horror cinema, I Spit on Your Grave and such.)
    "to become a philosopher, start by walking very slowly"
  8. #6
    Join Date Jan 2008
    Posts 391
    Organisation
    Considering my Options
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    It probably does happen that there is an exchange of ideas between government and the media. How deliberate, god only knows.

    If that is the case it is probably a 'right-wing' conservative attack on reason in favor of mysticism (the witches are real/the threat is real) and a subtle way of feeding fears of the 'other' in society, people who are different,(e.g. anyone the conservatives don't like is a 'witch', on the side of the devil, the living incarnation of evil, out to take away our children, etc, etc, etc.).

    The political climate in the US (from outside at least) if your looking at the libertarian/conservative/tea party camp is on the verge of paranoid szceiphroprenic anyway if not already there. The media is fanning the flames of a crisis mentality that keeps everyone on edge and therefore easy to control. by feeding the general public subtle messages that conspiracies are real and that the 'enemy' is a supernatural villain out to destroy their way of life, they're just doing the government work for them.

    [watch some McCarthy era anti-communist films and you see what I mean. I watched "I was a communist for the FBI". By the end I was cheering for the FBI! dam commies... oh, wait... that's me. ].

    it's could be sponsored by the NSA to justify the 'witch hunt' of mass surveillance. (But you won't ever know). The paranoia of everyone is a "potential" witch/security threat so we have to go through your personal data and screw with the evidence, due process of law or innocent until proven guilty would certainly help their case for keeping America 'safe' from the threat of domestic witchcraft/extremism.

    I'm sure they'll throw in some apocalyptic- doomsday references for good measure to keep the christian crowd happy. "if we don't find the witches they will destroy the world because they have a massive super weapon hiding somewhere in Salem that will bring about hell on earth".

    You know. The plot to every movie.

    But the problem with conspiracy theories is you never know if their true until someone high up actually confirms it, especially if they succeed. Just do yourself a favor and don't watch TV. it leaves you seriously open to manipulation when someone feeds you ideas without you knowing it.

    anyway, now to get back to watching videos about the Kennedy assassination on Youtube.
  9. #7
    Join Date Jul 2007
    Posts 12,367
    Organisation
    the Infernal Host
    Rep Power 252

    Default

    I assume you never watched Arthur Millers The Crucible? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crucible
    Its from 1953 and while about the salem witch trials its a clear allegory about the mcCarthy anti-communsit persecutions.
    Read it/watch the two films they made from it, its really good.
    The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
    Here at least We shall be free
  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sasha For This Useful Post:


  11. #8
    Join Date Sep 2002
    Posts 6,039
    Rep Power 59

    Default

    I assume you never watched Arthur Millers The Crucible? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crucible
    Its from 1953 and while about the salem witch trials its a clear allegory about the mcCarthy anti-communsit persecutions.
    Read it/watch the two films they made from it, its really good.
    Obviously it's a half-formed theory but the basics are there. It's obviously not a parallel for McCarthyism any more
    In any case, the point I was trying to get at here was not what the trials have represented over time - of course The Crucible is still probably the most well-known fictional take on it - but why this motif of "the witches were real and now people are dealing with their shit" has popped up at least four times in the last twelve months as the entire premise of media franchises while, to my knowledge, not popping up at all in the ten or twenty years before that.
    "to become a philosopher, start by walking very slowly"
  12. #9
    Join Date Jul 2007
    Posts 12,367
    Organisation
    the Infernal Host
    Rep Power 252

    Default

    just the horror flavour of the month i think, there have obviously movies and books with "real" witches all the time. now its extra trendy (not much conspiracy behind it i think, just that aliens and vampires are passé) and the laziest film/tv makers are grabbing the most obvious and recognizable period of witch lore in the US.
    if anything it has got most to do with an attempt at "americana", a trend to making "historic" fiction with recognizable real and recognizable elements (abraham lincoln vampire hunter etc etc)
    The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
    Here at least We shall be free
  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Sasha For This Useful Post:


  14. #10
    Join Date May 2008
    Location Everett, WA, USA
    Posts 2,467
    Organisation
    Communist Labor Party
    Rep Power 68

    Default

    I have mixed feelings about it. I mean, people were murdered by superstitious theocrats, so it's dodgy when the victims are reimagined as actual witches for fictional purposes.
    "I have declared war on the rich who prosper on our poverty, the politicians who lie to us with smiling faces, and all the mindless, heartless robots who protect them and their property." - Assata Shakur
  15. #11
    Join Date Oct 2013
    Posts 622
    Rep Power 18

    Default

    I have mixed feelings about it. I mean, people were murdered by superstitious theocrats, so it's dodgy when the victims are reimagined as actual witches for fictional purposes.
    To make a super-extreme, over-the-top example of the same thing, it's a bit like making the Jews actually be world-controlling ZOG operatives in WW2.
  16. #12
    Join Date Aug 2013
    Location UK
    Posts 160
    Rep Power 6

    Default

    Not directly related to the issue but am I the only one who finds female supernatural beings scarier than male ones?
    E.g. the witch from the Conjuring, the woman from A Tale Of Two Sisters, the woman from The Ring etc.
    Much scarier than males from horror films imo, this coming from someone who grew up afraid of Freddy Krugar.

    Could this be sexist? Maybe my mind associates females with being soft, caring etc so when I see these characters they appear more evil since in my head it's a bigger jump to go from regular woman to evil demon/witch/ghost than it is for a man?
    I wish death on everyone who works for the Department for Work and Pensions.
  17. #13
    Join Date Jan 2012
    Posts 2,005
    Organisation
    LDD
    Rep Power 43

    Default

    It could be the case that your own notions are ratcheting up the scare factor when it comes to female monsters/witches/sorceresses but I think it's also the case that evil women are generally presented in a more physically grotesque fashion than evil males. Evil men are typically presented as normal looking on the outside but crazed in mind or soul or whatever. Women on the other hand tend to grow hooves, wings, claws, boils and all that kind of shit once they are revealed as evil or corrupted.
    Man is but a goat in the hands of butchers
  18. #14
    الاشتراكية هي المطرقة التي نست Supporter
    Admin
    Join Date Aug 2010
    Location Detroit, Michigan.
    Posts 8,258
    Rep Power 159

    Default

    Common themes conveyed by today's fictional narratives have generally been quasi-New age spiritualism, or ideas brought forth by the religious revival. Things about "faith", blind belief, miracles and so on. Naturally there is definitely a dark side to this, just as the dark side to this new fascination with paganism has fascist implications - completely backward views on PAST events. As though "Hey guys! If this is true, wouldn't that lead us to have a different take on x?". Of course they are not aware of its backward nature, but they do all the same.
    [FONT="Courier New"] “We stand for organized terror - this should be frankly admitted. Terror is an absolute necessity during times of revolution. Our aim is to fight against the enemies of the Revolution and of the new order of life. ”
    Felix Dzerzhinsky
    [/FONT]

    لا شيء يمكن وقف محاكم التفتيش للثورة
  19. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Rafiq For This Useful Post:


  20. #15
    Join Date Oct 2013
    Posts 622
    Rep Power 18

    Default

    Personally I'm more afraid of men in horror, due to the overt threat of sexual violence.
  21. #16
    Join Date Sep 2002
    Posts 6,039
    Rep Power 59

    Default

    I have mixed feelings about it. I mean, people were murdered by superstitious theocrats, so it's dodgy when the victims are reimagined as actual witches for fictional purposes.
    Exactly. And only Salem, which is actually set in the 17th century, even acknowledges the fact that males were also killed during the trials.
    "to become a philosopher, start by walking very slowly"
  22. #17
    Join Date Sep 2002
    Posts 6,039
    Rep Power 59

    Default

    Not directly related to the issue but am I the only one who finds female supernatural beings scarier than male ones?
    E.g. the witch from the Conjuring, the woman from A Tale Of Two Sisters, the woman from The Ring etc.
    Much scarier than males from horror films imo, this coming from someone who grew up afraid of Freddy Krugar.

    Could this be sexist? Maybe my mind associates females with being soft, caring etc so when I see these characters they appear more evil since in my head it's a bigger jump to go from regular woman to evil demon/witch/ghost than it is for a man?
    I definitely think there's something to the idea that the scariest horror results from subverting themes that normally represent safety and security. The scariest shit, to me, is that which can make you scared in the daytime, not just the night (Mulholland Drive, It); in your house, not just in an abandoned something-or-other (like everything since the late 90's); in the city, with lots of people around (The X-Files); and while you're completely aware you're watching a movie (Lost Highway did this for me).

    I wouldn't necessarily say it's sexist, or at least the most you can do is be critical about it. Horror, what we really find scary beyond just a simple fight-or-flight "something with sharp claws is coming to kill me", rarely plays on voluntary associations.
    "to become a philosopher, start by walking very slowly"
  23. #18
    Join Date Jan 2005
    Location The Upside Down
    Posts 11,499
    Rep Power 196

    Default

    Witches are real though
    "whatever they might make would never be the same as that world of dark streets and bright dreams"

    http://youtu.be/g-PwIDYbDqI
  24. #19
    Join Date May 2008
    Location Everett, WA, USA
    Posts 2,467
    Organisation
    Communist Labor Party
    Rep Power 68

    Default

    Exactly. And only Salem, which is actually set in the 17th century, even acknowledges the fact that males were also killed during the trials.
    The trials were just the worst of it. Heretics in Puritan areas were routinely punished by having a hot poker stuck through their tongue. It happened to my 8th-great-granduncle Joseph Gatchell in the neighboring town of Marblehead in 1684 (8 years before the witch trials)
    "I have declared war on the rich who prosper on our poverty, the politicians who lie to us with smiling faces, and all the mindless, heartless robots who protect them and their property." - Assata Shakur
  25. The Following User Says Thank You to Danielle Ni Dhighe For This Useful Post:


  26. #20
    Join Date May 2008
    Location Everett, WA, USA
    Posts 2,467
    Organisation
    Communist Labor Party
    Rep Power 68

    Default

    Witches are real though
    Not those kind of witches.
    "I have declared war on the rich who prosper on our poverty, the politicians who lie to us with smiling faces, and all the mindless, heartless robots who protect them and their property." - Assata Shakur

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 5th June 2014, 09:40
  2. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 4th July 2011, 16:27
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 30th December 2010, 04:40
  4. Nixon called Indira Gandhi an "old witch"
    By resisting arrest with violence in forum History
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 30th June 2005, 16:42

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Tags for this Thread