How can Anarchy be Left-wing?

[Anti-Archy]

I wrote a longer post and it apparently did not post. So ill make it short and sweet. I searched "Anarchy" on tapatalk and found this forum. Its called "RevLeft" which I take means "Revolutionary Left"? I also see people reffering to themselves as Anarchist-Communists which seems like an oxymoron.

Can someone give me some perspective here? I'm not asking for super long replies to explain the meaning of life but a little something to nibble on would be appreciated.

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

Anarchos = without rulers.

Capitalists = rulers.

Leftists = anti capitalists.

[Anti-Archy]

Anarchos = without rulers.

Capitalists = rulers.

Leftists = anti capitalists.

but wouldn't a leftist also be pro-government? Governments are rulers.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

I wrote a longer post and it apparently did not post. So ill make it short and sweet. I searched "Anarchy" on tapatalk and found this forum. Its called "RevLeft" which I take means "Revolutionary Left"? I also see people reffering to themselves as Anarchist-Communists which seems like an oxymoron.

Can someone give me some perspective here? I'm not asking for super long replies to explain the meaning of life but a little something to nibble on would be appreciated.

Anarchists have always been part of the socialist (or communist, if you prefer) movement, with the earliest recognisable anarchists being members of the First International alongside Marxists, Lassaleans and so on. I think the question is, why do you think anarchy can't be left-wing (or how it could be anything but left-wing).

[Anti-Archy]

Anarchists have always been part of the socialist (or communist, if you prefer) movement, with the earliest recognisable anarchists being members of the First International alongside Marxists, Lassaleans and so on. I think the question is, why do you think anarchy can't be left-wing (or how it could be anything but left-wing).

Well like I stated above, leftists are pro-government of some flavor or another. Government is a ruler in any flavor. Anarchists are anti-ruler.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Well like I stated above, leftists are pro-government of some flavor or another. Government is a ruler in any flavor. Anarchists are anti-ruler.

Except leftists are not "pro-government", unless you want to count liberals and social-democrats. Marxists want to smash the bourgeois state and hold that the revolution will eventually lead to a stateless society.

[Anti-Archy]

Except leftists are not "pro-government", unless you want to count liberals and social-democrats. Marxists want to smash the bourgeois state and hold that the revolution will eventually lead to a stateless society.

So essentially were getting hung up on word definitions then. For me what your saying would require me to take the left/right spectrum and add a Y on the left side to accommodate what you just said. I know socialism and communism are down there on the left side so how can we say that lefists are anti-ruler if we are using a left/right spectrum where far left is socialism and far right is zero government. which is where I would place anarchism.

[Anti-Archy]

Communism

"a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs."

Anarchism

"belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion."

Im not sure if the majority here are Anarchist-Communists or if its a minority but with the above definitions I see it as two totally contridicting ideas.

Can someone explain this to me?

[Anti-Archy]

Except leftists are not "pro-government", unless you want to count liberals and social-democrats. Marxists want to smash the bourgeois state and hold that the revolution will eventually lead to a stateless society.

Is communism not a form of government?

[RedWorker]

Is communism not a form of government?

Correct. Communism is a society without a state.

I strongly suggest that you lurk a bit more here before making posts on such basic issues.

[Anti-Archy]

Correct. Communism is a society without a state.

I strongly recommend that you lurk a bit more here before making posts on such basic issues.

Im trying my best to lurk. I just keep reading confusing/contridicting info. Is there somewhere you can direct me to help explain communism in a nutshell besides Wikipedia?

My initial question that arises from what you just said is, if communism is a stateless society, then who decides how property and wealth is evenly distributed?

[Redistribute the Rep]

Communism

"a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs."

The reason you think it's contradictory is probably because you don't understand the word public. In this context, when we say the property is public owned we mean collectively owned, where all members of society democratically run things. This is in contrast to private property, which a few members of society own and exclude others from making decisions on. You're probably thinking of the word public as defined by the bourgeois government as "government owned."

[Skyhilist]

Left wing doesn't mean more supportive of governments, so...

[Anti-Archy]

The reason you think it's contradictory is probably because you don't understand the word public. In this context, when we say the property is public owned we mean collectively owned, where all members of society democratically run things. This is in contrast to private property, which a few members of society own and exclude others from making decisions on. You're probably thinking of the word public as defined by the bourgeois government as "government owned."

But it is fundamentally against anarchism to vote upon the fait of anothers life, liberty or property. Nobody can justify casting a vote as an Anarchist. So democracy and Anarchism cannot be used together.

[Leftsolidarity]

I suggest you read the threads directed at new members and FAQs because most of your questions could be easily answered there. You're stuck in a very basic and incorrect view of the political spectrum. Far-right would not be anarchism but fascism, so the opposite.
Everything, particularly politics, boils down to class perspective. A view that the political spectrum goes from liberal-right libertarians (because that has to be what you think anarchism is with this much confusion) is strictly stuck in a bourgeois perspective of politics of how to manage a capitalist system. We, as revolutionary Leftists, don't fit on a such a narrow spectrum. We have a working class perspective of how to dismantle the past political system and create one for our class. Anarchism is firmly rooted in anti-capitalism and is anything but right-wing.

---

btw, moving this to /learning

[Anti-Archy]

I suggest you read the threads directed at new members and FAQs because most of your questions could be easily answered there. You're stuck in a very basic and incorrect view of the political spectrum. Far-right would not be anarchism but fascism, so the opposite.
Everything, particularly politics, boils down to class perspective. A view that the political spectrum goes from liberal-right libertarians (because that has to be what you think anarchism is with this much confusion) is strictly stuck in a bourgeois perspective of politics of how to manage a capitalist system. We, as revolutionary Leftists, don't fit on a such a narrow spectrum. We have a working class perspective of how to dismantle the past political system and create one for our class. Anarchism is firmly rooted in anti-capitalism and is anything but right-wing.

---

btw, moving this to /learning

Going to read the FAQ's now.

[Human Liberation Front]

Hope this helps.

[Anti-Archy]

Hope this helps.

Very much. But it further reinforces that communism and anarchy are on opposite ends. I see Collectivism being indicated as opposite sides to Anarchy on that diagram. Am I misinterpreting it?

[Q]

Very much. But it further reinforces that communism and anarchy are on opposite ends. I see Collectivism being indicated as opposite sides to Anarchy on that diagram. Am I misinterpreting it?

I think the diagram is misleading. "Collectivism" in rightwing parlance means something like "good luck finding a way to survive as we cut away all social services, go bother your friends or family or whatever". Genuine collectivism, in the communist sense, is however a positive message of actually organising the working class as a social force for social change, that is, the overthrow of capitalism to build a future without borders, alienated institutions where a minority rules us (aka, the capitalist state), war, poverty... This is distinct, but not hugely different from what anarchists are fighting for.

[helot]

Ignore that diagram as it's shit.

Communism and anarchism are not on opposite ends of anything and in fact anarchism is a part of the socialist/communist movement. What differentiates anarchism from the rest of communism is at the very least terminology and at the most tactics and strategy for the abolition of capitalism and the creation of a stateless, classless society where all land and means of production are held in common.

If the left-right distinction means anything is that those on the left tend towards social equality while those on the right tend towards social inequality. Anarchism/communism is thus on the far-left