Alexis Tsipras' speech at the Die Linke Party Congress

[Die Neue Zeit]

http://www.european-left.org/positio...berlin-germany



By Alexis Tsipras



Comrades and Friends,

We are only few days away from the most critical European elections in the history of the European Union. Because this time, we are not voting only to elect members of the Parliament. We are voting to shape the balance of political forces in a Europe, which is at a critical crossroads. We are voting to hold back catastrophic austerity and regain democracy. We are voting for our lives.

To tear down the «wall of money». To overcome the North-South division. A division that cancels the European idea and Europe itself.

The dilemma is now clear: Either with the Europe of the peoples or with the Europe of the bankers. Either with democracy and solidarity that unite Europe or with austerity that kills Europe. Either with the European Left or with Ms Merkel.

And the answer is only one: All together, let’s march ahead, with the European Left. With Die Linke and SYRIZA. Once again with the Left!

Comrades and Friends,

I bring to you the message of hope and change that I receive from every corner of Europe. The optimism and the anticipation of the ordinary citizen of Europe on the street. That the Left will be the pleasant surprise of the European elections.

We can, we must and we will be. Because now is the hour of the Left. Now is the hour of democracy. Now is the time for change! The other Europe is not only our motto. It is the demand of every citizen in Europe. Wherever he or she may reside. In North or South, East or West.

I bring to you the hope of every citizen. Whose patience is over. Who cannot withstand austerity any more. Who cannot tolerate fear any more. Who are ready to vote for dignity and the European Left at the European elections.

In the four corners of Europe. Citizens are optimistic that, at the polls, we will break through the wall of austerity built by its three musketeers:
the conservatives, the liberals, and the social-democrats.

Because in a few days we are not voting on the dosage of austerity. We are voting for its immediate termination. We are voting for a policy change.
For democracy, justice and growth. That's why we are voting Left.

And I am optimistic. We will break through the neoliberal consensus of the three. The European Left will be the third political force in the next European Parliament and will play a leading role in developments. It’s becoming clearer with every day that goes by.

That we will leave the past behind:
Mr Juncker, who has presided over all the Eurogroup meetings for the Memoranda and austerity. And who has grave political responsibility for the failure of the austerity programs.

But also, Mr. Schultz. Who assumed the Presidency of the European Parliament in half term, after a political deal between the conservatives and social-democrats. And, in the critical periods of the crisis, he has shown no difference in essence from his right-wing predecessor.

And, the «determined duo», as their own Chairman, Graham Watson, characterized the liberals Guy Verhofstadt and Olli Rehn. The symbol of harsh austerity in Europe, Mr Olli Rehn. Whom the Liberals are hiding behind Mr Verhofstadt in order to deceive people ahead of the elections. That's why every vote in favor of Juncker, Schultz and Verhofstadt is a willing yes to the continuation of austerity. And every vote that is lost by abstaining for any respectable reason is also an unexpected yes to austerity.

Those who are critical to the current Europe from a progressive angle. They should be the first ones to go to the polls. They should be the first ones to vote down the political forces that have contributed to the current neoliberal and undemocratic Europe of fear and Memoranda.

Those in Europe who want policy change and a change in course. They should vote the lists of the European Left. But, above all, the first ones to go to the polls should be those who are the first victims of this crisis. The young and the women. From unemployed, they should become the pioneers of change in Europe.

May 2014 offers a once-in-a-generation opportunity to reshape Europe for the better. We must seize it. All the more since, For the first time, The peoples of Europe themselves, Have set the political agenda of these elections. No to austerity. Yes to growth.

That's why even the most consistent political supporters of austerity are critical of it, just ahead of the elections. But this opportunity should not be missed.

Now we can and must turn Europe Left. Because those who are now denouncing right-wing Euroscepticism, nationalism and neonazism are the same who fuelled it with the choice of the barbarous austerity measures. And we, the European Left. We are the only counterweight to the nightmare of the far-right and to the reappearance of the ghost of fascism in Europe.

Comrades and Friends,

Let me say it once again: The neoliberal European establishment. Ms Merkel and her political allies. Have taken advantage of the crisis in order to rewrite Europe’s postwar political economy. And to impose the Anglo-Saxon neoliberal capitalism. And they did that with myths and populism.

First, they said that the Greeks were supposedly lazy and for that reason they went bankrupt. But when the crisis began to spread, they did not dare to repeat it. They also said that it was the money of the taxpayers of the North that saved Greece. Once again, they did not tell the truth. Because, with your money, they saved the overexposed to Greek bonds European banks. That’s why the Greek debt was not restructured at the outset.

That is, with your own money you saved the European banks and the neoliberal governments of Europe. And then. Out of the loans disbursed to Greece. Only 1,6% went to the country’s government budget, namely, €5,3 billion.

The rest goes out from one pocket. And only after the self-destructive prerequisites of the Memorandum have been fulfilled. The money goes back in the same pocket. Because it is deposited immediately to a special account, only for the repayment of past loans. This is the reality. And for this to happen successfully, Greece has plunged into a recession for the seventh consecutive year.

Because unlike the forecasts of the accomplices who pretend that Greece is a «success story». The OECD forecasts recession this year for Greece.
At the rate of 0,3%. And timid growth after 2015 – and that only conditional. This is the growth which the troika had assured that it would appear as early as 2012. Now that’s postponed for until 2015 – and we shall see.

And so one reasonably wonders: The average German citizen. The average Dutch citizen. The Finn and others. Would they tolerate in their countries an official unemployment close to 30%? An unprecedented for a European country, in peacetime, humanitarian crisis? Children in school fainting from hunger? Small businessmen committing suicide because of debts and closures? Retired people who cannot afford to buy their medicine?

Show me the European country whose citizens would tolerate such living conditions.
And tell me: Would you describe that as a «success story»? As it is described by the advocates of austerity? By Ms Merkel, Mr Samaras, and his assistant, Mr. Venizelos, Mr Juncker and the duo Guy Verhofstadt and Olli Rehn . They talk about success, so that to continue with the austerity.

Or would you describe it as a modern Greek tragedy that must end immediately?

And it will end immediately. Because, I assure you. SYRIZA will win a great victory in the May 25 elections. A victory that would mean the end of the Samaras government and the beginning of the end of austerity in the entire Europe. The, beloved to Ms Merkel, Samaras government will soon prove to be a minority among the people. And I regret that I will say it here, in Berlin. And Mr Merkel, who will listen to it, will be upset. But soon, she will have to deal with a government of the Left in Greece. A government that – and I promise that to you. Will negotiate with her on your behalf as well. Because our own differences with Ms Merkel do not have a national sign. They, instead, have a political, social and class sign. And the end of the strategy of austerity in the South will be the most optimistic message for the working people in the North. That the devaluation of their labor will end. That their rights will be protected.

Comrades and Friends,

I want you to be fully conscious of it and convey this message to the German people: Everything that took place in Greece and in Europe’s South, with the austerity programs. It did not happen to tackle the debt crisis. The proof is that: Before the Memorandum, public debt as a percentage to GDP was 124% in Greece. Today, after four Memorandum years, it is 175%. Now, that the productive base of the country is in ruins. That unemployment is as high as never before. And Greece is on the verge of a humanitarian crisis. Despite massive austerity, Greece’s public debt is unsustainable. Because debt sustainability has never been a policy goal. The policy goals have been austerity per se, privatizations and neoliberal reforms.

But the Greek public debt will not become sustainable without bold initiatives. Like writing-off a large part of its nominal value.
Similar to the solution for Germany in 1953. Which has been a landmark in European solidarity.

But, if it is not sustainable. Then it will be a real burden and a threat, not only to Greece, but to the entire Eurozone. Those who think that the indebtedness of Greece and the pending debt sustainability is a negotiating weapon, they should know that they are holding a boomerang instead of a revolver.

Comrades and Friends,

I know that, once again, you are all looking at Greece. But this time you turn your eyes upon us with optimism. It was from Greece that the vicious and black circle of austerity and social despair started. It will be from Greece that the new circle of change will start.

But I want you to know that we, as SYRIZA, we are particularly looking forward to the German people and to the sister party of Die Linke. We are looking forward to your solidarity and support.

And, at this point, I would like to thank you on behalf of the Greek people and SYRIZA. For the sincere support of Die Linke on a European moral and political issue, still pending. That of German war reparations. And, in particular, of the forced occupation loan from the Bank of Greece at the time. A loan, with which Nazi Germany financed its warfare.

That’s why it is not a bilateral, Greek-German dispute. It is a European issue, which is pending and must come to an end. And its resolution will be a moral vindication for all peoples in Europe.

And we have the ability. We can and we should. SYRIZA, Die Linke, and the Party of the European Left. Become ambassadors of a new unity between Greeks and Germans. Among all the peoples of Europe.

Comrades and Friends,

In the few days left until elections. For the Europe of tomorrow. We are fighting all together for each and every single vote. So that, especially those who are reluctant or have political objections, go and vote. We fight that battle from door to door. To make the European Left a force that can decisively influence the everyday life of the average citizen in Europe. A force of hope and prospect.

In that battle, I am trying to contribute with all my strength, as your candidate for President of the European Commission. Your choice is an honor for the Greek people who are suffering from austerity. And for all the peoples of the South, as well as across the entire Europe, who are against austerity. That is why , on a democratic, social and ecological basis.

With the vote of the citizens in a few days. We will open our sails for a Europe of dignity, justice and development.

Comrades and Friends,

This May will be for Europe. This May will be for the young, the women, the unemployed, the people of labor and culture. This May is ours! We will be the pleasant surprise of this election.

We are holding our fate in our vote. We are holding our life in our hands.

We will succeed in our struggle! Thank you all very much.

[Geiseric]

Kick ass. I know they'll do well.

[Thirsty Crow]

We are only few days away from the most critical European elections in the history of the European Union. Because this time, we are not voting only to elect members of the Parliament. We are voting to shape the balance of political forces in a Europe, which is at a critical crossroads. We are voting to hold back catastrophic austerity and regain democracy. We are voting for our lives.

The worst kind of mystification.

The upcoming elections themselves will not do a single thing to alter the balance of political forces; this simply doesn't work that way I'm afraid.

And of course, I suppose this regaining democracy business will have to do with a change in the personnel of the bourgeois state and supra-state institutions.

This is nothing more than electioneering with the side effect of producing significant illusions. Have fun lapping it up.

Kick ass. I know they'll do well.

Can you tell me something about my chances in love? Must be one hell of a crystal ball you got there.

EDIT: Oh yes, and by the way, Trots take heed, this is what happens with political formations emulating the mass parties of old, when reformists and putright social democrats mingle with (self styled) communists, even if the initial strategy was that of militancy and active presence in workers' struggles. Just see the electoral platform - not that Leninist conception of propaganda but not power - take precedence and end up in open strategy of taking charge of the bourgeois state apparatus.

[Rafiq]

Changing the balance of political forces means setting new political standards, Links. I'm sure you know how that works. I don't know if I would ever call for mass mobilisation for voting in these elections. What I do know, is that Syriza is, as Chavez did, setting new standards (even a man like Capriles has to operate under the guise of relatively social democatic politics, to hold legitimacy). Of course none of these are genuine proletarian movements. But the space for such movements in Europe today does not exist. Not while these skewed technocratic politics reign supreme, not while austerity goes unchallenged and not while ultra nationalist, and far right parties being legitimate contenders to bourgeois democracy is a more feasible prospect by week. In the process of the (progressive) bourgeoisie saving their own rule (Europe today cannot go on like this), they will effectively unleash the class struggle.

[Rafiq]

Everyone must recognize that even by bourgeois-liberal standards, speaking within historical proximity, there is something deeply rotten with the direction Europe is headed.

[Broviet Union]

Popular front-ism has basically always been the right strategy. Ultra leftist avoidance of elections is fruitless. We've seen what happens when bourgeois society shifts to the Right.

[Per Levy]

In the four corners of Europe. Citizens are optimistic that, at the polls, we will break through the wall of austerity built by its three musketeers:
the conservatives, the liberals, and the social-democrats.

and the 4th musketeer is of course die linke, just if some of you forgot, everytime die linke was in part of gouverment, like in berlin, brandenburg, mecklenburg and so on they always said yes to cuts, didnt kep their promises and showed just how empty the slogans of die linke are.

Because in a few days we are not voting on the dosage of austerity. We are voting for its immediate termination. We are voting for a policy change.
For democracy, justice and growth. That's why we are voting Left.

bullshit, the european parliament doesnt have the power to end austerity. building up illusions and promises that they can never keep, just like the liberals, consevatives and social-dems.

No to austerity. Yes to growth.

yeah let capitalsm grow more, it has done so much good in the past right? tsirpas is nothing but a social democrat who speak to a social democratic party.

[Per Levy]

Kick ass. I know they'll do well.

geis, you do know that your german comrades are in the spd right? so you should want that the spd and the european social dem do well, just saying.

Popular front-ism has basically always been the right strategy. Ultra leftist avoidance of elections is fruitless. We've seen what happens when bourgeois society shifts to the Right

popular fronts are a horrible stragety and always has been, its a stragety to reduce worker militance, to pretty much give up class struggle in order to fight with one part of the bourgoisie against another. and lets be honest here, all popular fronts have failed miserably. also i dont know what exactly the popular front has to do with anything in the european elections.

Changing the balance of political forces means setting new political standards, Links.

how will they do that exactly? the european parliament is useless and powerless and the majority of voters, especially the majority of workers dont give a shit about the european elections.

the german constitutional court removed the election threshold of 3% for this election because they basicly said that the european parliament is so powerless and unimportent that there is no need for a election threshold.

seriously the only things that have power in europe are the national gouverments and the european commision whos personel get chosen by the national gouverments, the commision makes the laws and sometimes the parliament can vote on those.

[Q]

DNZ, I'm leaning with the left-commies on this one, despite the little slander LeftRadikal put up in his edit...

It is positive that Tsipras at least offers some kind of pan-European strategy. This as opposed to the Dutch SP, which resides again behind the idea that "The Hague is more easily to hold democratically accountable than Brussels".

But what we need is not an alternative government, but an alternative opposition. Tsipras is also still in the opposition, but only because he can't find any coalition partners to govern with, an opportunist opposition as I call it. He aims to be in power and this has the dynamic of selling out any and all principles Syriza has in order to become 'trustworthy' to other parties. What we need is a principled opposition and Tsipras is not going to deliver that. Communists should be fighting for a different programme and strategy in both Syriza and Die Linke (and the Dutch SP) and be the principled opposition inside these parties.

[Thirsty Crow]

Changing the balance of political forces means setting new political standards, Links. I'm sure you know how that works.

Well, being European and learning a thing or two about the EU, I'd say yeah. The thing here is that it is a farce to claim this might be achieved by voting in EU parliament elections.

What I do know, is that Syriza is, as Chavez did, setting new standards (even a man like Capriles has to operate under the guise of relatively social democatic politics, to hold legitimacy).

This remains to be seen. Nothing new about it, the capitalist class itself has a wing which is absolutely in favor of shutting down austerity so nothing really new here. Why I say it remains to be seen? Because forming a government and ruling will be the litmus test for these social democrats.

Of course none of these are genuine proletarian movements. But the space for such movements in Europe today does not exist.

Why do you think space for proletrian movements doesn't exist? Honest question, and gotta say, this not only sounds a bit wrong on the factual side of things (even though the space you mention is small, in my opinion), but also defeatist. Tailing bourgeois forces can easily result from this.

Not while these skewed technocratic politics reign supreme, not while austerity goes unchallenged and not while ultra nationalist, and far right parties being legitimate contenders to bourgeois democracy is a more feasible prospect by week.

Well, yes I actually had in mind that any proletarian movement in formation will be born on practices against these phenomena you mention.

In the process of the (progressive) bourgeoisie saving their own rule (Europe today cannot go on like this), they will effectively unleash the class struggle.

There's still room to pummel us with austerity. This is not the most viable strategy in the long run though.
But I completely disagree with the assessment of there being a progressive bourgeoisie; that seems as if there's a New Deal in waiting. It's not first and foremost due to the free capital flows which means that any such political project must be international from the very start (encompassing not only the institutions of the EU, but getting into national governments as well). Instead it is conceivable that there might be some kind of a state-private capital agreement in the future, but you can forget about full employment, job security, rising wages, when profitability remains low.

Anyway, I do think that your attitude is that of tailing bourgeois forces, nothing more. The real struggle against austerity, crypto-fascism can only be waged successfully by the working class; I don't think there's getting around that fact, and that there is no short cut.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Changing the balance of political forces means setting new political standards, Links. I'm sure you know how that works. I don't know if I would ever call for mass mobilisation for voting in these elections. What I do know, is that Syriza is, as Chavez did, setting new standards (even a man like Capriles has to operate under the guise of relatively social democatic politics, to hold legitimacy). Of course none of these are genuine proletarian movements. But the space for such movements in Europe today does not exist. Not while these skewed technocratic politics reign supreme, not while austerity goes unchallenged and not while ultra nationalist, and far right parties being legitimate contenders to bourgeois democracy is a more feasible prospect by week. In the process of the (progressive) bourgeoisie saving their own rule (Europe today cannot go on like this), they will effectively unleash the class struggle.

So because revolution can't be achieved tomorrow we should aim for social democracy?

This is a pig dressed up in a nice frock with some lipstick.

Tsipras is an excellent politician and his faux-radical rhetoric reflects this. He calls the conservatives, liberals and social democrats the 'musketeers' and then effectively says that his aim is to oppose austerity and neo-liberalism. Isn't that the job of social democrats? He can't really juxtapose himself with the centre-left and then make demands typical of the centre-left.

Once again, Tsipras is a social democrat masquerading as something more radical in order to gain votes. Let's not mistake his politics as anything that is particularly relevant to working class interests in either the short- or long-term, and let's not subscribe to this re-hash of the 'British Road to Socialism' that somehow finds it acceptable to replace revolutionary demands with reformist social-democracy, simply because revolution isn't a realistic option in the short-term.

[Rafiq]

No one is talking about tailing anyone, and no one is settling for Syriza. The language for revolutionary politics is alien and foreign to Europe, it would never survive or gain favor in current circumstances, because the forces of reaction are consuming bourgeois democracy, and it is they, reactionary populists who are currently able to mobilisize the working class en masse. And its stupid to compare Syriza to modern social democratic parties, which are effectively neoliberal parties. Syriza has more in common with the politics of mid 20th century Europe, *this* social democracy. I don't think winning the elections will directly have any meaningful effect, besides the fact that again, political standards will change that will make proletarian consciousness more possible.

I like how you, in the spirit of an internet forum, talk of "THEY JUST REPRESENT SOCIAL DEMOCRACY" like all groups and organizations are to be catagorized by your silly political tendency matrix and judged accordingly, rather than their actual implications on a political level. I spoke about this in another forum I started.

[Thirsty Crow]

No one is talking about tailing anyone, and no one is settling for Syriza. The language for revolutionary politics is alien and foreign to Europe, it would never survive or gain favor in current circumstances, because the forces of reaction are consuming bourgeois democracy, and it is they, reactionary populists who are currently able to mobilisize the working class en masse. And its stupid to compare Syriza to modern social democratic parties, which are effectively neoliberal parties. Syriza has more in common with the politics of mid 20th century Europe, *this* social democracy. I don't think winning the elections will directly have any meaningful effect, besides the fact that again, political standards will change that will make proletarian consciousness more possible.

I like how you, in the spirit of an internet forum, talk of "THEY JUST REPRESENT SOCIAL DEMOCRACY" like all groups and organizations are to be catagorized by your silly political tendency matrix and judged accordingly, rather than their actual implications on a political level. I spoke about this in another forum I started.

Don't be a tool.

Of course this isn't a matter of "silly political tendency matrix" - the issue is class politics. Nothing more and nothing less (well, in my view you can't even have this "more").

In this sense, communists as communists have a really clear role - defend the class autonomy of the proletariat and our exertion and build up of power. Here it is vital to unmask the political currents employing radical rhetoric with the express political programme to bind the working class to capital in a particular way. For all the invocations of concrete political implications and effects, this is one you seem to be missing completely.

About the political implications themselves, you're not really following through and assessing them at all. Only wishful thinking here, evident in:

I don't think winning the elections will directly have any meaningful effect, besides the fact that again, political standards will change that will make proletarian consciousness more possible

You're not making n argument here but merely restating the original assumption. Which is itself based on wishful thinking at best.

For one thing, it is the express position to form government. Which effectively means that working class activity and energy is going to be rerouted this way, not the other way around. This is how this thing works when an organization is based on this kind of an electoral platform.

Secondly, it would seem that this change in political standards you believe in is based on ideological propaganda enabled by SYRIZA seats in the EU parliament - but this assumes that the current party programme will be carried out in the parliament in the first place without modifying influences - and I think it is much more reasonable to expect significant pressure and such modifying influences as SYRIZA approaches the position of forming the government. This is why I'm saying that taking charge of the bourgeois state will prove as the most reliable litmus test.

And in this sense, all the nice stuff in SYRIZA's programme, as I said (and you flt out ignored) mean very little when there is no real drive at internationalism among social democrats like SYRIZA. Because capital flows and the ever present threat of capital flight act as a significant counter-weight to any comprehensive social democrat national solution to the crisis of austerity. I'm not here talking about symbolic and merely ideological coordination and mutual support - if this born again social democracy is to even produce what you claim it can, better conditions for proletarian class consciousness, it simply has to coordinate a political campaign of not only conquering ruling position within EU apparatuses, but also national governments. There is of course no serious attempt at this.

And again about these better conditions for proletarian class consciousness, even if we disregard the blatant and open mystification in a text which is put up in this thread, and allowing for some kind of such an effect, it is also clear that opposing effects to this are likely to be expected also. One of the most dreadful ones being what I said about tying the working class to capital in a particular way. Which is also what happened with post WWII social democracy which you explicitly liken to SYRIZA:

Syriza has more in common with the politics of mid 20th century Europe, *this* social democracy.

And ask yourself about a) the huge difference in social and political situation, especially in relation to potentials for profitable accumulation, and b) how this same old social democracy fared historically with producing better conditions for proletarian class consciousness.

The answer to the latter is of course it produced better conditions - by provoking mass proletarian resistance and action against these very political currents and institutions. Which is quite a different situation than one you seem to be hoping for with your idea of a progressive bourgeoisie (which really hasn't got that under "a)" at its disposal now).

[Terror]

It should be obvious that a "popular front" as a method will be constrained by the limitations that "popularity" imposes onto a movement or a party. The political content of a popular front will therefore be, in today's political context, anything but revolutionary. Political parties such as SYRIZA, Die Linke, and other similar parties in Europe are letting popularity decide their direction, and as it seems, they do not care where this takes them.

While it might be more difficult to gain power by other means, such as stimulating the growth of a proletarian movement which has the potential to overthrow the the capitalist system, it's the path we must take if we want to avoid being recuperated by the bourgeois state.

[Rafiq]

I have absolutely no doubt that a class conscious proletariat would oppose Syriza, let me make that very clear. When the proletariat is given relative comfort, space is opened up for class consciousness. Time and time again this has been proven. I would not dare talk of the proletariat collaborating with the progressive bourgeoisie holding power - merely that it could be strategically beneficial if they were to hold power, as opposed to the other contenders. Of course winning seats in the upcoming EU election will have absolutely no direct effect on the state of capitalism, the problem links is that this is not a pragmatic question, but an ideological - or political one. Again, I must stress, political standards will have to change in order for a popular Syriza to be rivaled, as always, and the proletariat realizing the impotence of Syriza whilst still holding to a standard which absolutely excludes reactionary politics could have positive implications for Communists.

The proletariat as a class historically have possessed the ability to force the bourgeoisie to completely change their political conditions by the pressure of their conscious existence alone. I do not speak of Syriza attaining power alone, Links, I speak of the tendency and political trends across Europe this could entail.

A second point I would like to introduce is the fact that Syriza's place in political discourse extends beyond holding seats in any parliament, they attempt to hold a firm cultural basis in society (a la the Black Panthers breakfast program), in the same way the Golden Dawn does - Syriza is a broad organization with room for more radical politics to take charge - which evidently do not hold sway.

[Thirsty Crow]

A second point I would like to introduce is the fact that Syriza's place in political discourse extends beyond holding seats in any parliament, they attempt to hold a firm cultural basis in society (a la the Black Panthers breakfast program), in the same way the Golden Dawn does - Syriza is a broad organization with room for more radical politics to take charge - which evidently do not hold sway.

Just this quick point, I've tried to find some information on what you say here quite a few times and there simply is no information available on anything apart from some bread thing in schools organized (or planned) by the local SYRIZA chapter in Crete.

Might be that I searched in a wrong way, but I'd say that first 7-8 pages of google search aren't at all insignificant.

So, I think you got it all wrong about this, no doubt under the influence of DNZ mythology. Do you have any information about this apart from this school campaign?

EDIT:

I have absolutely no doubt that a class conscious proletariat would oppose Syriza, let me make that very clear. When the proletariat is given relative comfort, space is opened up for class consciousness.

Do you think that there is any ground for such a development, that of relative comfort? I think that there's only grounds for easing the attacks actually.

Which brings me yet again to a very concrete point, that what you call pragmatic concerns are actually the basis for the ideology:

Of course winning seats in the upcoming EU election will have absolutely no direct effect on the state of capitalism, the problem links is that this is not a pragmatic question, but an ideological - or political one.

I think that purely ideological/political questions divorced from their basis, what you call pragmatic questions, don't have much sense especially since I don't even believe SYRIZA will prove to be consistently anti-austerity if they come even closer to forming the government (and the campaign in Euro elections I also take as a part of the overarching strategy - forming a government). Any such effect you think is realistic is at most incremental and not that significant in my opinion.

I would not dare talk of the proletariat collaborating with the progressive bourgeoisie holding power - merely that it could be strategically beneficial if they were to hold power, as opposed to the other contenders.

I get it.

I just don't share the same perspective on possible effects as you do; though, I'm not denying the possibility of some positive effects, but I view it as more side effects of a kind, and not that significant, especially since I'm of the opinion that social democracy is even in a better position to bind the working class to capital in certain conditions (especially these prevailing today; this is the "secret" of the platform of renegotiating Greek debt, the focus being on "renegotiating").

The proletariat as a class historically have possessed the ability to force the bourgeoisie to completely change their political conditions by the pressure of their conscious existence alone.

I don't think that the pressure came from proletarian conscious existence alone - that was almost always accompanied by militant action as well.

But yes, I'm not denying that budding proletarian consciousness, especially as manifest in independent action, can force changes; far from it. It's just that I doubt that what SYRIZA does can lay a sound groundwork for this.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

[QUOTE]

When the proletariat is given relative comfort, space is opened up for class consciousness. Time and time again this has been proven.

Has it? Isn't this what happened between 1945 and c.1970 in post-war Europe? And this was followed by an avalanche of an attack by capital in response to the 'relative comfort' afforded to working people in the post-war years. I'd like you to point me to where it has been 'proven' that welfare/standard of living reforms tend to heighten class consciousness in mature capitalist societies.

I would not dare talk of the proletariat collaborating with the progressive bourgeoisie holding power - merely that it could be strategically beneficial if they were to hold power, as opposed to the other contenders. Of course winning seats in the upcoming EU election will have absolutely no direct effect on the state of capitalism, the problem links is that this is not a pragmatic question, but an ideological - or political one. Again, I must stress, political standards will have to change in order for a popular Syriza to be rivaled, as always, and the proletariat realizing the impotence of Syriza whilst still holding to a standard which absolutely excludes reactionary politics could have positive implications for Communists.

It's weird that for all this talk of 'opposing' the 'impotent' SYRIZA, the likes of you and DNZ spend a great deal of time defending their politics.

A second point I would like to introduce is the fact that Syriza's place in political discourse extends beyond holding seats in any parliament, they attempt to hold a firm cultural basis in society (a la the Black Panthers breakfast program), in the same way the Golden Dawn does - Syriza is a broad organization with room for more radical politics to take charge - which evidently do not hold sway.

I simply cannot believe you would compare the BPP and SYRIZA. One advanced social revolution and was called the greatest threat to America in the late 1970s, the other is a party that is merely opposed to austerity and neoliberalism, which are merely two of capitalism's own ideologies.

[Thirsty Crow]

It's weird that for all this talk of 'opposing' the 'impotent' SYRIZA, the likes of you and DNZ spend a great deal of time defending their politics.

Vladimir, this isn't actually the case, I'd say. It's not a defense of the politics (well DNZ probably does but whatever) but some illusions about the possible effects. I think it matters how you formulate it.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Vladimir, this isn't actually the case, I'd say. It's not a defense of the politics (well DNZ probably does but whatever) but some illusions about the possible effects. I think it matters how you formulate it.

Yes, I think that's probably fair if you take their words at face value, but I see the sort of philosophical manoeuvring as a de facto defence of the party itself, and therefore its politics; whether this is intentional or not is really irrelevant.

[Geiseric]

geis, you do know that your german comrades are in the spd right? so you should want that the spd and the european social dem do well, just saying.



popular fronts are a horrible stragety and always has been, its a stragety to reduce worker militance, to pretty much give up class struggle in order to fight with one part of the bourgoisie against another. and lets be honest here, all popular fronts have failed miserably. also i dont know what exactly the popular front has to do with anything in the european elections.



how will they do that exactly? the european parliament is useless and powerless and the majority of voters, especially the majority of workers dont give a shit about the european elections.

the german constitutional court removed the election threshold of 3% for this election because they basicly said that the european parliament is so powerless and unimportent that there is no need for a election threshold.

seriously the only things that have power in europe are the national gouverments and the european commision whos personel get chosen by the national gouverments, the commision makes the laws and sometimes the parliament can vote on those.

Go screw yourself. I already explained that in a different thread. I haven't seen any political activity from you other than on the internet anyways so I don't see how you can really think I care about your opinion.