Results 1 to 18 of 18
From destroy.svbtle.com
The power differential between the customer seeking a service and the person providing a service is nowhere nearly so clearcut as "the customer is always a tyrant".
It depends on the sector and the specifics.
While a poor waiter might be subject to the whims and, to a certain extent, under the power of the wealthy diner, this hardly the only sort of customer.
Consider the power dynamics between the medical customer, made to think of themselves as a "patient", and the many times wealthier physician upon whom they depend for their basic health - and who arranges their meetings (the thin and immodest hospital gowns, the use of intermediaries, the inequality of title, the belief in 'doctors orders' 'doctors know best', and that doctors can 'allow' patients this and that), controls what products will be furnished and how.
Consider the banking customer who supplicates themselves to the banker for a mortgage to get their first home?
Consider the housing customer who submits to a background investigation and signs a contract of adhesion disfavorable to themselves to rent from a landlord?
☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
I dont think I would consider physicians, bankers, or landlords as part of the "service industry." Those are all professions which predate the existence of the modern service sector, which is really what this article is about.
An aptitude for "customer service" is required if you want to work in the service industry. In my experience some customers are exceptionally pleasant, some are tyrants, and the rest are forgettable. Few people are suited to do this kind of work as a career. I became burned out and quit.
Lame article. What does it advocate? Revolution? Unionization? Protest? No, just admonishes us to be nice to the poor help. Who knew that the ultra "radical" website whose motto is "Destroy Everything: Anti-Authoritarian, Anti-Political, Anti-Civilization" would be writing rough drafts for Miss Manners!
In my work i also often have to deal with people who somehow got it in their head that they can give me orders because we are paid by the municipality for our work.
I will try to be reasonable and explain what my responsibilities are and who they need to contact to forward their complaints.
But of course those who insist in their attempt to force me into fixing their issues are bound to get ever increasingly rude rebuttals.
This lead to some phone calls to my boss where 1 was about how polite and helpful i was and the other about what a rude arse i was all on the same day.
So at coffee break my boss asked me what that was about and i explained the situation and that i simply matched the tone i was being spoken to.
But honestly i could not function in this job if i could be fired just for being rude (i would need to threaten them)
You are entering the vicinity of an area adjacent to a location. The kind of place where there might be a monster, or some kind of weird mirror...
I feel like this is another one of those posts where I'm going to get murdered repeatedly, but the reason customers can be pushy and obnoxious at least in my experience is because persons at work or on the telephone or wherever else often purposefully and arbitrarily seem to want to fuck you over.
For example, I once went to a county jail in order to visit a friend of mine who had been recently arrested, as I was getting him out on bond. I walked in and was told by the persons at the counter that he would be able to see me shortly, and to wait in the lobby. About a half hour later, I went back up to the desk and the same people from before told me that no visitations at all of any sort were allowed for a week, after I had sat there waiting at their instruction. I ended up having to coordinate everything with the people at the bail bond company without being able to talk to the person imprisoned at all, who then went in and apparently worked their magic and got my buddy out.
Situations like this, along with calls to customer service where I've been told to drive to cities an hour away when I could've just gone down the street, or when persons have lied to me about this or that arbitrarily despite my politeness, I've come to understand why people get annoyed when told "no" or whatever. It's because your coworkers and other persons in the service sector like to arbitrarily fuck everyone else over who is just trying to enjoy a night out or fix it when the company you work for has fucked them over somehow. I am still polite and 70% of the time get great service, helpful-if-exhausted customer service, or whatever else, but still the other 30% of the time I have to hold back the temptation to give people an earful when I know for a fact they're lying to me about something to get me out of their hair.
People at work are people, and so are customers. There's no reason for either to be rude or whatever else, and there are offenders on both sides of the desk. And understand, I've seen people badgering the cashiers or skimming on the tip in restaurants and those people are assholes. I always make sure I tip well and be as courteous as possible to people who are stuck at work helping me out with whatever. But, you know, this idea that all customers are assholes is basically just shitty pseudo-edgy misanthropy.
Well communer i can see where you are coming from just thinking back about tech support stuff makes my blood boil with the copy paste emails they send you.
You are entering the vicinity of an area adjacent to a location. The kind of place where there might be a monster, or some kind of weird mirror...
I agree with your points completely, but when it comes to service fuck the customer. Seriously, fuck them.
“How in the hell could a man enjoy being awakened at 6:30 a.m. by an alarm clock, leap out of bed, dress, force-feed, shit, piss, brush teeth and hair, and fight traffic to get to a place where essentially you made lots of money for somebody else and were asked to be grateful for the opportunity to do so?” Charles Bukowski, Factotum
"In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, as 'right-to-work.' It provides no 'rights' and no 'works.' Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining... We demand this fraud be stopped." MLK
-fka Redbrother
I think it might be more useful to fill in the gaps of things like this rather than railing against the gaps and inadequacies. It would be nice to read things like this which could provide more of an understanding from revolutionary perspectives. I thought the article brought up interesting things, i just don't think the conclusions or conception of the issues were convincing.
As someone who probably has more than a decade of non consecutive years in low wage service jobs, I'd like to see this invisible frustration brought to the surface more. I'm biased, but I think the growth of service in the u.s. neoliberal era is kind of huge in terms of new specific class dynamics, connections with the modern forms of sexism and racism in the u.s., among other major things.
It seems to me that this is the basis of modern service in the u.s. ... De industrialization/creation of a new low wage labor force; Non-union jobs which tended to have suppressed wages and more repressive style management because of traditional u.s. conceptions of it being "women/ethnic-minority/teen work".
This article is mostly about a consumer entitlement mentality in the u.s. (Which I think is a fact, but i don't know if it's really new or just expanded as these jobs have grown) and makes it seem like the "consumer" is more powerful than the employer somehow. But I think it's more that the employers have increased their ability to control workers in these jobs which then increases the power dynamic between customer and employee... As if part of the service being sold is momentary management/control of labor.
That's in cases where it's "customer service"; where the customer isn't buying a service, increased control due to the low wage work-force manifests itself differently. Either way, there's frustration and tension due to the service worker being a buffer between bosses and customers. The boss cuts the number of checkers at the huge grocery market and so no "adequate service" is possible for the customer; for the worker, the customers are widgets on an assembly line - but widgets who all think they are special, unique, and generally have bad attitudes. It's management by stress; It's an alienating position to be in for the worker.
These jobs are also very different due to specific contexts, but on the whole, the trend is wal-mart, not heterogeneous small shops. Wal-mart also encapsulates the ideological side of this trend too... But it's more just a marketing ploy. Really their power is in controlling the shit out of unprotected (as of yet) unorganized workers.
Anyway, if anyone knows some good articles that go into depth on this subject from a Marxist perspective, I'd love to read more about this.
There was a lottery ad I think in Greece that showed a couple winning "crazy money" and then spending their time in the pool of some fancy hotel with the waiter getting soaked trying to give them their cocktails.
This is the attitude the article is trying to tackle I think. Consumers -workers themselves most of the time- often feel "entitled" not simply to the service but to the person providing it, like he's a slave for rent.
This ad even got me thinking that restaurants and hotels and all those types of businesses should be organized differently in a socialist economy, to stop creating this notion.
When possible, people should take care of their own crap. You can carry your food to your table or make your bed. You do these things everyday and they're really not that much of a burden, there is no need to try and mimick a royal lifestyle.
...We shall never recognise equality with the peasant profiteer, just as we do not recognise “equality” between the exploiter and the exploited, between the sated and the hungry, nor the “freedom” for the former to rob the latter. And those educated people who refuse to recognise this difference we shall treat as whiteguards, even though they may call themselves democrats, socialists, internationalists, Kautskys, Chernovs, or Martovs.
V.I. Lenin
A customer wouldn't need to be rude or an asshole. Giving a large tip along with a sly smile (an "I fixed you well, didn't I?" type of thing) would give probably every worker in the service industry a huge smile, but it still reinforces the idea that these people are from two seperate worlds.
...We shall never recognise equality with the peasant profiteer, just as we do not recognise “equality” between the exploiter and the exploited, between the sated and the hungry, nor the “freedom” for the former to rob the latter. And those educated people who refuse to recognise this difference we shall treat as whiteguards, even though they may call themselves democrats, socialists, internationalists, Kautskys, Chernovs, or Martovs.
V.I. Lenin
The democratization of power...
---
I'll respectfully differ with this position of yours, on principle....
If, once capitalist social relations have been surpassed, people might feel like providing such (menial) services to others, for (necessarily) entirely personal reasons, there could not be any conceivable reason to *dissuade* such voluntary actions, since the prevailing social context would be one that's 100% free of any duress.
Offhand I could liken such 'club' behavior to present-day consensual sexual activities, where 'adult' acts of all sorts take place amongst those with proclivities to act out imaginative and boundary-pressing fantasies.
Perhaps, for example, a voluntary social commune in a post-capitalist world might very well have such servant-like duties on a *rotation* basis, so that those who serve all others in the commune one day would become the *recipients* of such service on the next.
There are no valid material grounds for arguing otherwise, and to actually do so is, in effect -- ironically -- *lifestylism*.
I, for one, though, would prefer to see any such servile duties relegated to existing or future mechanical technologies, so that no *person* would have to put forth their labor to effect luxury-type conveniences for those who would prefer such.
Under socialism i would expect people to continue working in service jobs.
People working in holiday resorts tending to tourists and i forgot the name but those people who tend to the house hold when those people had a baby to teach them the ropes and such.
I would not mind a job tending to tourists if i was compensated well and not treated like a slave especially if i knew i was going to have plenty of time off to be spoiled as well![]()
You are entering the vicinity of an area adjacent to a location. The kind of place where there might be a monster, or some kind of weird mirror...
At the risk of sounding nit-picky here, I'd like to point out that the whole idea of being 'compensated' for one's efforts in a post-capitalist society, is *problematic*.
Sure, people could readily swap personal favors of any and all kinds, as people do today when they're on more-or-less the same socio-economic level, but to imagine payments of abstracted valuations (currency), or exchanges of liberated labor for material rewards is -- again -- problematic, since such would be too close to the effective *commodification* of labor power.
(This is my standing critique of the well-known 'labor vouchers' proposed implementation.)
Pies Must Line Up
![]()
Compensated well as in not working until i die and then 6 months more to pay for my funeral along with plenty of days off and everything i need to live a decent live.
But i can see how using the word compensation lead you to think i was talking about making a lot of money instead of having a working life that can be considered humane.
For that i take full responsibility.
You are entering the vicinity of an area adjacent to a location. The kind of place where there might be a monster, or some kind of weird mirror...
I think there would be some increase in service type positions after capitalism, at least ones that couldn't be automated. And there's no reason that these positions would need to be degraded, degrading, alienated and frustrating. Post revolution, service and servitude wouldn't be the same thing, service could be valued for it's usefulness if the point of it was actually to be useful for a community. Helping people in a genuine way, because you like the food you cook or feel useful to others in the community is possible, but in capitalism generally service only exists to help the boss make money, under conditions and actual prescribed behavior set by bosses and management.
It doesn't cost anything to smile and say hello, but when you are monitored and threatened with economic consequences on the job if you don't say "hello, can in help you" to everyone who steps within 15 feet of you.... Well then basic friendliness is a commodity and when you get off the clock you just want to go around saying, "fuck you, step back" to anyone who comes within 15 feet of you.
The actual management of behavior and personality is really an insidious part of modern service management techniques. It's like the hours are not yours (as in any wage job), the act of work is broken down and made into repetitive time-based actions (like any modern work), but you also sell your personality and mood to the boss along with your hours.
I'll also add that, given that labor produces goods and services (and infrastructure), and that all goods and infrastructure would be part of the collective commons in a post-capitalist society, that leaves just *services* remaining as a variable -- and, in that context of collectivized implements, 'services' would thus then include 'the production of free-access goods and infrastructure, by liberated labor'.
So while 'services' today is instinctively thought of as 'servant-like effort for clients', the services of a *socialist* liberated labor would actually effect *mass production* -- free goods and infrastructure for the common good.
(I've incorporated this understanding into a model / framework for the functioning of a socialist-type economics.)