Is North Korea being preped for invasion?

[Prometeo liberado]

Say what you will about the DPRK but after this U.N. report it's quite simple to see through this as nothing more than the first course leading to further isolation( read: mass starvation) and ultimately invasion as in the Iraqi set up and invasion. As a socialist(not saying the DPRK is)do we not have a responsibility to keep the world's working class out of this? I would think so.
Up the call for Proletarian Internationalism.

p.s. Note the "Nazi" references.

The unprecedented public rebuke and warning to a head of state by a U.N. inquiry is likely to further antagonize Supreme Leader Kim Jong-un.
GENEVA — North Korean security chiefs and possibly even Supreme Leader Kim Jong-un himself should face international justice for ordering systematic torture, starvation and killings comparable to Nazi-era atrocities, U.N. investigators said on Monday.
The investigators told Kim in a letter they were advising the United Nations to refer North Korea to the International Criminal Court (ICC), to make sure any culprits "including possibly yourself" were held accountable.
The unprecedented public rebuke and warning to a head of state by a U.N. inquiry is likely to further antagonize Kim and complicate efforts to persuade him to rein in his isolated country's nuclear weapons program and belligerent confrontations with South Korea and the West.
North Korea "categorically and totally" rejected the accusations set out in a 372-page report, saying they were based on material faked by hostile forces backed by the United States, the European Union and Japan.
Michael Kirby, chairman of the U.N. Commission of Inquiry, said he expected his group's findings to "galvanize action on the part of the international community".
"These are not the occasional wrongs that can be done by officials everywhere in the world, they are wrongs against humanity, they are wrongs that shock the consciousness of humanity," Kirby, a former chief justice of Australia, told journalists.
Referral to the Hague-based International Criminal Court is seen as unlikely given China's probable veto of any such move in the U.N. Security Council, diplomats told Reuters.
"Another possibility is establishment of an ad hoc tribunal like the tribunal on the former Yugoslavia," Kirby said.
The U.N. investigators also told Kim's main ally China that it might be "aiding and abetting crimes against humanity" by sending migrants and defectors back to North Korea to face torture or execution, a charge that Chinese officials dismissed.
"STRIKINGLY SIMILAR" TO NAZI ERA
The findings came out of a year-long investigation involving public testimony by defectors, including former prison camp guards, at hearings in South Korea, Japan, Britain and the United States.
Defectors included Shin Dong-hyuk, who gave harrowing accounts of his life and escape from a prison camp. As a 13-year-old, he informed a prison guard of a plot by his mother and brother to escape and both were executed, according to a book on his life called "Escape from Camp 14".
Kirby said that the crimes the team had catalogued were reminiscent of those committed by Nazis during World War Two.
"Some of them are strikingly similar," he told Reuters.
"Testimony was given ... in relation to the political prison camps of large numbers of people who were malnourished, who were effectively starved to death and then had to be disposed of in pots, burned and then buried ... It was the duty of other prisoners in the camps to dispose of them," he said.
The number of North Korean officials potentially guilty of the worst crimes, would be "running into the hundreds", he said.
The independent investigators' report cited crimes including murder, torture, rape, abductions, starvation and executions.
"The gravity, scale and nature of these violations reveal a state that does not have any parallel in the contemporary world," it said.
North Korea's diplomatic mission in Geneva dismissed the findings. "We will continue to strongly respond to the end to any attempt of regime-change and pressure under the pretext of 'human rights protection'," it said.
The two-page North Korean statement, in English, said the report was an "instrument of a political plot aimed at sabotaging the socialist system" and defaming the country.
Violations listed in the document and forwarded to Pyongyang for comment several weeks ago, "do not exist in our country".
"DELIBERATE STARVATION"
The investigators said abuses were mainly perpetrated by officials in structures that ultimately reported to Kim - state security, the Ministry of People's Security, the army, the judiciary and Workers' Party of Korea.
"It is open to inference that the officials are, in some instances, acting under your personal control," Kirby wrote in the three-page letter to Kim published as part of the report.
The team recommended targeted U.N. sanctions against civil officials and military commanders suspected of the worst crimes. It did not reveal any names, but said it had compiled a database of suspects from evidence and testimony.
Pyongyang has used food as "a means of control over the population" and "deliberate starvation" to punish political and ordinary prisoners, according to the team of 12 investigators.
Pervasive state surveillance quashed all dissent, it said.
North Korea's extermination of political prisoners over the past five decades might amount to genocide, the report added, although the legal definition of genocide normally refers to the killing of large parts of a national, ethnic or religious group.
Kirby warned China's charge d'affaires in Geneva, Wu Haitao, in a Dec 16 letter that the forced repatriations of North Korean migrants and defectors might amount to "the aiding and abetting (of) crimes against humanity", the said.
Wu, in a reply also published in the report, said the fact that some of the North Korean migrants regularly managed to get back into China after their return showed that the allegations of torture were not true.
Human Rights Watch said it hoped the report would open the U.N. Security Council's eyes to the scale of atrocities.
"By focusing only on the nuclear threat in North Korea, the Security Council is overlooking the crimes of North Korean leaders who have overseen a brutal system of gulags, public executions, disappearances, and mass starvation," said executive director Kenneth Roth.
(Editing by Andrew Heavens)

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

On the flip side, it's important that the hotch-potch allegations and testimonies from defectors are codified into a single document.

You'd hope that, especially when thinking of the DPRKs own military capabilities (including nukes), that this isn't the first step to war, but the first step towards meaningful, peaceful pressure on the government that has mis-ruled the DPRK for so long.

[Skyhilist]

Apparently numerous people who had been forced to live under awful conditions in the prison camps have said that they did some pretty sick shit when someone had a kid too. Apparently either the mother or a third party would have to drown the infant, or suffocate them, or place them face down so they couldn't breathe. Real fucking messed up and I don't see any reason that anyone should have any sympathy for that psychopath Kim Jong-Un. That said, this obviously isn't quite as bad as the Nazis - but it's pretty damn difficult to do things as awful as what the Nazis did, so that's not really saying much.

[Alexios]

Why are you rolling your eyes at Nazi allegations? It's well known that the DPRK has concentration camps, and there are tons of prisoner testimonies describing the conditions.

Thinking that an invasion is imminent is pretty naive, tbh. North Korea has very few resources compared to places like Iraq and Iran. An invasion by the US would probably just be overly costly and put them on bad terms with the other world powers. Even the supposed "allies" of the DPRK have seemed to abandon it, as Wikileaks documents showed.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

but the first step towards meaningful, peaceful pressure on the government that has mis-ruled the DPRK for so long.

Yeah, that I just cannot believe, it'll only further spur their introverted political deformity to new heights, isolated them further and make for a nice hot-bed for even worse paranoia.

In addition, fuck the UN, fuck 'human rights', fuck the DPRK and even more, fuck trying to pin down the institutional deformities on some manner of personal pathologies ("psychopath" this, that, etc).

[Future]

I support the swift downfall of North Korea. The country is one big concentration camp that treats its people worse than animals. North Korea is by far the most bourgeois institution in the world today.

[Taters]

North Korea is by far the most bourgeois institution in the world today.

So there are degrees of bourgeoisness? what's the DPRK at like 97% bourgeoisity? USA used to be top bourgeois dog but socialistic policies (obamacare) dropped its bourgeoisity to 80%.

[Leftsolidarity]

I support the swift downfall of North Korea. The country is one big concentration camp that treats its people worse than animals. North Korea is by far the most bourgeois institution in the world today.

Oh my fuck, I think I'm going to cry from the ignorance. All hail the all-knowing Wikipedia and Fox News reader.

But seriously, I don't know if the threat of invasion is more imminent than it has been (it's always there) but I do think this is going to be their new tactic for trying to discredit the Workers Party of Korea and further non-military attacks on the DPRK under phony "human rights" allegations.

On the flip side, it's important that the hotch-potch allegations and testimonies from defectors are codified into a single document.

You'd hope that, especially when thinking of the DPRKs own military capabilities (including nukes), that this isn't the first step to war, but the first step towards meaningful, peaceful pressure on the government that has mis-ruled the DPRK for so long.

Are you really naive enough to think this? When have the imperialists EVER done this?

[Os Cangaceiros]

I doubt that the DPRK risks imminent invasion. It's too hard of a nut to crack at the moment...granted, a country like the USA could probably successfully defeat the DPRK in a military struggle, but probably not without significant loss of life & not before Seoul gets turned into a crater, I imagine.

[Queen Mab]

The US is never going to invade North Korea. There's no point and it would antagonise China.

[Prometeo liberado]

Why are you rolling your eyes at Nazi allegations? It's well known that the DPRK has concentration camps, and there are tons of prisoner testimonies describing the conditions.

Thinking that an invasion is imminent is pretty naive, tbh. North Korea has very few resources compared to places like Iraq and Iran. An invasion by the US would probably just be overly costly and put them on bad terms with the other world powers. Even the supposed "allies" of the DPRK have seemed to abandon it, as Wikileaks documents showed.

I don't know how you feel about the Holocaust or Nazis does much disservice to those who went through WW2. The U.N. has a fetish with dropping the Nazi/Holocaust bombs. Serbs/Croats, Rwanda come to mind.

As for the DPRK not being prepped for an invasion because of so few resources and too costly Afghanistan was invaded for essentially one man and what looks like an extremely costly mining industry. Also, securing their nuclear arms is a long term cost effective prospect for those in the military-industrial complex.

My question is how long will the left wait until they realize that another round of working class youth are being shipped off to slaughter?

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

Oh my fuck, I think I'm going to cry from the ignorance. All hail the all-knowing Wikipedia and Fox News reader.

But seriously, I don't know if the threat of invasion is more imminent than it has been (it's always there) but I do think this is going to be their new tactic for trying to discredit the Workers Party of Korea and further non-military attacks on the DPRK under phony "human rights" allegations.

Are you really naive enough to think this? When have the imperialists EVER done this?

You say the human rights allegations are phony? Please elaborate. North Korea is highly isolated--the only people who leave are the people who leave illegally, the defectors. They'e the sole window we have into the country, and the picture they're painting of the place ain't pretty. What other perspective do you have to offer? The KCNA?

[tachosomoza]

Oh my fuck, I think I'm going to cry from the ignorance. All hail the all-knowing Wikipedia and Fox News reader.

But seriously, I don't know if the threat of invasion is more imminent than it has been (it's always there) but I do think this is going to be their new tactic for trying to discredit the Workers Party of Korea and further non-military attacks on the DPRK under phony "human rights" allegations.



Are you really naive enough to think this? When have the imperialists EVER done this?

The WPK already does a bang up job of discrediting itself, and the human rights abuse isn't a rumor. How can you call someone else naive when you say this silly shit?

Fuck the Kims.

[Leftsolidarity]

Y'all make wayyyy too many assumptions. There's is definitely a point to destroying the DPRK for the imperialists. If there wasn't, they wouldn't prop up a puppet in the South, have the most militarized border in the world, and have such a massive and unending propaganda campaign to demonize them (so effective that it even has much of the Left parroting it). So don't come out with your grand assumptions that are based in nothing but your head. They did bomb every building over 1 story tall in the North, they bombed Yugoslavia, the killed Ghaddifi, they're still attacking the Syrian state, they tried to invade Cuba, they invaded Grenada, they bombed a neighborhood in Philly, etc. Most of those things don't make sense and the imperialists don't always act intelligently. They make blunders just as the workers and oppressed do. So I wouldn't put it past the imperialists to attack anyone who stands against them. To doubt that for even one day I think is foolish and dangerous.

[Leftsolidarity]

You say the human rights allegations are phony? Please elaborate. North Korea is highly isolated--the only people who leave are the people who leave illegally, the defectors. They'e the sole window we have into the country, and the picture they're painting of the place ain't pretty. What other perspective do you have to offer? The KCNA?

So believe the imperialist media and the defectors trying to win favor with them? And you think listening to KCNA is absurd? Yeah, I think I'll actually listen to the perspective of the WPK and not the biggest imperialists in the world. Anti-imperialism 101.

The WPK already does a bang up job of discrediting itself, and the human rights abuse isn't a rumor. How can you call someone else naive when you say this silly shit?

Fuck the Kims.

How is it on the other side of the barricades with the imperialists?

[Os Cangaceiros]

As for the DPRK not being prepped for an invasion because of so few resources and too costly Afghanistan was invaded for essentially one man and what looks like an extremely costly mining industry. Also, securing their nuclear arms is a long term cost effective prospect for those in the military-industrial complex.

The Taliban didn't really have much of anything in terms of weaponry to fight a conventional war with, so of course that invasion was cake. The DPRK has a substantial amount of conventional arms so the decision to engage won't be as easy as it was in Afghanistan or Iraq.

I mean, if you can make a persuasive argument as to why NOW is the time when an invasion is most imminent, as opposed to, say, November of 2010 when the DPRK and the South Koreans were blasting at each other with artillery fire, I'd be willing to listen to it, but I just don't see it as the situation stands now. An invasion of the DPRK would have tremendous repercussions for the USA, both from it's allies (South Korea, Japan etc) and it's competitors (China)

[tachosomoza]

How is it on the other side of the barricades with the imperialists?

Yes, I'm an imperialist for trusting the word of North Korean workers who left the country under PAIN OF DEATH over self serving, lying despots who sap the life and resources from the Korean proletariat and throw them in death camps.

[Prometeo liberado]

The Taliban didn't really have much of anything in terms of weaponry to fight a conventional war with, so of course that invasion was cake. The DPRK has a substantial amount of conventional arms so the decision to engage won't be as easy as it was in Afghanistan or Iraq.

I mean, if you can make a persuasive argument as to why NOW is the time when an invasion is most imminent, as opposed to, say, November of 2010 when the DPRK and the South Koreans were blasting at each other with artillery fire, I'd be willing to listen to it, but I just don't see it as the situation stands now. An invasion of the DPRK would have tremendous repercussions for the USA, both from it's allies (South Korea, Japan etc) and it's competitors (China)

Im not saying anything other than the wording of this report eerily mimics the language coming out of the white house just after 9/11 towards Iraq. And with the cost of containing, and the uncertainty of maintaining a watchful eye on it's nuclear arsenal only increasing, the benefits seem to far exceed the cost.
This is the standard diplomatic language of war it seems. And if this be the case how will the international left prepare to resist what would amount to a war of despot vs. imperialism.

[Tenka]

Considering China's "aiding and abetting of crimes against humanity", and there really being nothing to gain from an "invasion of DPRK", I think the western nations are just going to use this to somehow enable themselves to dictate the terms of some manner of deals with "criminal accomplice" China.

[Ali Ali Oxen Free]

Wouldn't it just be more beneficial for the West to pressure China to soften the North Korean regime into trading it's large supply of precious metals to China? China could then act as a supply for the precious metal to be sold around the world.

The West and the rest of the world would get access to the metals, China gets to make money from selling the metal, South Korea would't have to share it's wealth in a reunification, and the millions of poor North Koreans would be trapped in North Korea and wouldn't be able to move to richer countries in search of jobs. It's like a capitalists wet dream. You get the precious metal and money without the poor immigrants.