Science in a Communist state...

[The Children of the Revolution]

After the inevitable Proletarian Revolution, what will the world do about science? I was thinking about this the other day; I came to the conclusion that "Communist Science" is infinitely superior to "Capitalist Science". Becuase there is no profit or money involved, because science is studied for "the common good", there is no need to hoard information.

Details of research the world over could be accessed by scientists anywhere, rather than having competeing "teams" fight to be first to develop the next major breakthrough. Free flow of information would ensure faster progress in EVERY field. This was shown, to some extent, in the Soviet Union. Although much went wrong in the USSR, Science did incredibly well. Let us not forget that the "Commies" were winning the "Space Race" - first dog in space, followed soon after by the first man, Yuri Ghagarin. [sp]

Russian fighter aircraft (MiG's etc.) were better than their American equivalents for a long time too - thanks to better research and development by our Eastern Comrades.

Another point to note is that in an exclusively Communist society (without a "Cold War" to worry about) would devote more time to projects for the good of the people - health and infrastructure related - rather than military based ideas. I think they would also conduct more "ethical" research; not going to extreme lengths for cash!!

What do you think?

[BOZG]

I would definately agree. We live in a situation where the advancement of scientific knowledge is done purely for profit. There are situations where there are hundreds of scientists working for competing companies, all trying to make breakthroughs are certain projects and not sharing information while if these companies co-operated, they could greatly advance science. Just look at the situation with attempts to find a cure for AIDS, where for starters there are numerous companies working against each other and also where some countries like Brazil and South Africa were threatened by the WTO for using generic drugs rather than US pharmaceutical company drugs. Science under capitalism is a brilliant example of the wastage created by competion and duplication, how many different kinds and makes of cough medicines and painkillers can you find in a pharmacy? There is no necessity to have 101 different types.

[LSD]

Not only would you eliminate competition but you wouild also eliminate useless research.

The amound ot resources and time being put into developing, say athletic shoe design, or soft drink labeling, or advertising would be put into something that actually helped people.

Not to mention that in a communist society, there would be no motivation to go into science except love or dedication. Without financial incentive, everyone working on research would only be there because they actually cared.

And without financial limitations, those who today would be in science but they couldn't afford the education would be able to go into it. Hell for all we know, the man who could cure AIDS is starving on the streets of inner city America.

[BOZG]

Over a $1 trillion is spent a year on advertising. A quarter of this could provide clean water for every person on earth. And who knows how much is wasted on unnecessary duplication of products......500 different detergents, 600 different tooth pastes etc etc.

[mia wallace]

the science would be better in my opinion cause, for ex., there wouldn't be need for scientist to invent viruses for country's enemies... they would all be focused on... let's say right things

btw, what do u think - would there be that much problems with animals (cows, chicken) and their ill health or genetically modificated food in a communist state?

[BOZG]

genetically modificated food in a communist state?

In a communist/socialist society I would support the use of GM foods, after they had been properly researched but I completely oppose their usage under capitalism because they are merely another form of profit building and are sold to the public without regard to health or safety.

[mia wallace]

i'd support it too, but i wouldn't like that u can't get food that's not genetically modificated...

[The Children of the Revolution]

In a communist/socialist society I would support the use of GM foods, after they had been properly researched but I completely oppose their usage under capitalism because they are merely another form of profit building and are sold to the public without regard to health or safety.

This is a good point. I am against genetic meddling in ANY circumstances, but GM foods have great potential - if used for the good of society rather than for the good of shareholders!! The environmental impact would also have to be considered...

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by BornOfZapatasGuns@Jan 25 2004, 09:01 PM

genetically modificated food in a communist state?

In a communist/socialist society I would support the use of GM foods, after they had been properly researched but I completely oppose their usage under capitalism because they are merely another form of profit building and are sold to the public without regard to health or safety.

I agree with you totally TCTR, communist science would be infinitely better, prices wouldn't be an issue or time limits for that matter. :hammer: "Cost effective," *gets thrown out the window*

BZG,
I agree for the most part, there is a thread on this: GM Apocalypse Averted

[Hegemonicretribution]

Whilst I agree with many of these points, especially people's realisation that pharmecutical companies use research for profit making alternatives, and there are rarely breakthroughs....I do not necessarily agree that science will progress at a much faster rate in communism. The science will be available for a wider range of societies, however pressures would suggest that non-"proggressive" attitudes would stop research altogether in some areas. That is, however unauthoritarian, any laws would stop thios in all areas.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Originally posted by The Children of the Revolution@Jan 26 2004, 11:28 PM

In a communist/socialist society I would support the use of GM foods, after they had been properly researched but I completely oppose their usage under capitalism because they are merely another form of profit building and are sold to the public without regard to health or safety.

This is a good point. I am against genetic meddling in ANY circumstances, but GM foods have great potential - if used for the good of society rather than for the good of shareholders!! The environmental impact would also have to be considered...

Genetic engineering is nothing new, it's been practiced for thosands of years. By keeping the most desirable off spring. There is no such thing as a wild chicken or pig, just like you won't find a wild pack of chiwawas.

[toastedmonkey]

Originally posted by The Children of the Revolution@Jan 25 2004, 01:25 PM
the inevitable Proletarian Revolution

no one should really use that phrase, to say its inevitable is to say no matter what happens good or bad, no matter what we, ourselves, do its gonna happen anyway.

Its only probable if you force it, it can only be discribed as inevitable in a past tense.

[Rasta Sapian]

science and technology will be some of the greatest advances in the new socialist order, just as we have seen from the once proud USSR.

science must also be explored from a new holistic approach, herbal medicine and talk therapy are a few of the area's that must be explored further!

When you have a society of educated and enlightened people, you will have society prepared to take mankind to the stars! Economic and Cultural hangups will be that of the past!

peace yall

[Edelweiss]

Originally posted by The Children of the Revolution@Jan 25 2004, 03:25 PM
After the inevitable Proletarian Revolution...

It's off topic, but just a little correction, since this is a common mistake: Marx never said that Proletarian revolution is inevitable. He prediected the downfall of capitalism, which could either end in barbary or communism.

[BOZG]

Something leads me to believe that the inevitable Proleterian revolution comment was more of a joke than anything.

[Edelweiss]

Originally posted by BornOfZapatasGuns@Feb 5 2004, 09:34 PM
Something leads me to believe that the inevitable Proleterian revolution comment was more of a joke than anything.

It maybe had an ironic tone, but still it says a lot. Many communists have nearly religous like redemption phantasies of the great revolution to come...

[BOZG]

I think there is quite a trend of the religious fantasies though it tends to be more within authoritarian politics. From what I've read of his posts, I don't think COTR is such a person though he can only speak for himself.

[The Children of the Revolution]

Religious fantasies?? Haha, long live Saint Lenin!!

You're right BoZG, (what a wonderful achronym&#33 it was intended to be ironic. Or sarcastic. Well, not entirely serious anyhow...

When you have a society of educated and enlightened people, you will have society prepared to take mankind to the stars! Economic and Cultural hangups will be that of the past!

I admire your vision comrade!!