Ukraine: Fascism and Realpolitik

[Mikula Mali]

Sad thing humanity always get intimidated and submit to the most ruthless people. I was hoping this small community in East Ukraine will resist, but they are under enormous pressure, I hope they will soon get some serious help.

[cyu]

(The situation 5 months ago)

http://news.antiwar.com/2014/04/13/u...kraine-policy/

The US has expressed anger at Israel’s refusal to support a UN General Assembly resolution condemning Russia over the Crimea.

US officials were reportedly “incensed” that Lieberman suggested relations with both the US and Russia were important to retain, since the US gives Israel billions annually, and Russia doesn’t.

US media has dutifully mirrored government claims of Russian aggression, and claimed anti-semitism among the neo-Nazi Right Sector in the Ukraine as a “myth.” Israel’s media, by contrast, has reported extensively on attacks against Ukrainian synagogues, and the growing emigration of Jews from the nation.

[cyu]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukr...ldiers-n198961

German public broadcaster ZDF showed video of Ukrainian soldiers with Nazi symbols on their helmets in its evening newscast. pictures of a soldier wearing a combat helmet with the "SS runes" of Hitler’s infamous black-uniformed elite corps. A second soldier was seen with a swastika on his gear.

he had asked whether the battalion had fascist tendencies. “The reply was: we are just Ukrainian nationalists”

http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscm...ux-520-200.jpg

[cyu]

http://bayareaantifa.noblogs.org/pos...san-francisco/

Saturday night, the 30th, an event was held in downtown San Francisco where people were invited to discuss the Ukrainian fascist group “Right Sector” with it’s very own press secretary, Borislav Bereza.

The event was small, not more than 20 people in attendance, but it is nonetheless troubling that such a relatively high-ranking member of Right Sector could feel comfortable showing his face in this city.

This emergence of Right Sector in the United States is unfortunately not the first. So far this summer, Right Sector has hosted meet ups in multiple cities on the east coast (local antifas can email us for more info, if we haven’t contacted you already) and even held a demonstration in New York City.

[cyu]

The prelude to rigged elections is to outlaw the opposition. Maybe we can have a kinder, gentler fascism.

http://www.ibtimes.com/ukrainian-par...-video-1690106

A Ukrainian member of Parliament was thrown into a garbage bin by angry protesters. Vitaliy Zhuravskiy is a member of Yanukovych’s Party of Regions. The Rada approved a bill Tuesday that would throw out all of Yanukovych’s former allies from Ukrainian politics.

Zhuravskiy himself reportedly played a role in passing a bill that limited free speech in January.

many of the protesters appeared to be members of the Right Sector, a radical right-wing nationalist coalition.

The new bill is now in the hands of President Petro Poroshenko, who is expected to sign it without delay ahead of the Oct. 26 Rada elections.

[Hrafn]

Stop misusing the word Fascism, cyu.

[cyu]

I guess these guys http://bayareaantifa.noblogs.org/pos...san-francisco/ are more concerned about Right Sector than you are.

[Hrafn]

Cute. You're still misusing "Fascism", you faux-anarchist.

[cyu]

I'm sure there are also Israeli officials that are willing to overlook those in the American State Department who make use of fascists. Maybe they think "the end justifies the means" - at least as long as the US State Department helps protect the Israeli state in the United Nations.

Likewise, I'm sure there are also Israeli officials that would like to protect the Israeli state but want no part in funding the use of fascist gangs anywhere. These are merely different strategies towards a similar goal - that of preserving the Israeli state.

But all ideologies and memeplexes branch. If you go another step back, you might say that the Israeli state is merely one branch of a larger goal to protect the Jewish people in general. Some may believe that the Israeli state itself isn't necessary for such a goal - you'd probably more likely to find such people outside Israel (otherwise they'd probably already be in Israel doing their part).

Surely there are Jewish people who work against racism from outside Israel, and often in a context unrelated to Judaism. Stepping outside even that, you'd find non-Jews also working against racism in various ways ...and of course there are those for whom fighting racism is merely one part of their general humanism or work for equality.

I would expect that the more removed a person is from the Israeli state itself, the less likely he feels compelled to support American policy. But I'm sure there are also Israelis that do not believe they need American support to survive, and already have various contingency plans ready - after all, if your "patron" is starting to make deals with various unsavory groups to achieve their foreign policy goals, you'd be a fool to see them only through rose-colored glasses.

[Hrafn]

What on earth are you ranting about?

[Chainsaw]

ITT: Easily frightened pseudo-left wing reactionaries, with no knowledge of world history.

Ukrainian Nationalism, in this context, is a self-defence tactic, as a struggle against Russian imperialism, as it has been since using the Russian empire as a sanctuary from the oppressive Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which had absorbed the remnants of the Kingdom of Galicia-Volhynia—the by-product of the Kievan Rus' dissolution after having been attacked by the Golden Horde.

Believe me, Ukrainians are as Anarchism-loving as the Ukrainian Nestor Makhno; no gods, no masters, pardon the cliché.

[sanpal]

[White_Sun]

Seems absurd to see the NATO flag with Nazi one...

I'll never wrap my head around why so many Slavs sympathize with Nazism.

US officials were reportedly “incensed” that Lieberman suggested relations with both the US and Russia were important to retain, since the US gives Israel billions annually, and Russia doesn’t.

I don't remember the exact statistic but I believe about a third of the Israeli population can speak Russian and 20 percent were born in Russia. I wonder why Russian relations are important to Israel not to mention all the tourism.

In any case, real travesty from any angle you look at there.

[cyu]

Seems absurd to see the NATO flag with Nazi one

Seems ironic, but then again, a supposed "defender of democracy" like the CIA was good friends with Augusto Pinochet. I guess the only conclusion that can be drawn is that ideology is just something used to fool the noobs, and the only true ideology they (ie. the sociopaths that manage to weasel their way into positions of authority) follow is that of power and domination.

[White_Sun]

Seems ironic, but then again, a supposed "defender of democracy" like the CIA was good friends with Augusto Pinochet. I guess the only conclusion that can be drawn is that ideology is just something used to fool the noobs, and the only true ideology they (ie. the sociopaths that manage to weasel their way into positions of authority) follow is that of power and domination.

The west (particularly the US) support regime change is possibly the biggest thorn in US public relations (aside from actively invading, Israel, etc.). I just don't see that much logic in NATO expanding aggressively. Soft power has had much more success overall than strong arm tactics such as organized regime change that end up in messy conflicts. Libya, Syria, Egypt, Ukraine. I think strategists are still flushed with the success of the 90s.

The Eastern Rebels also have a fair share of Monarchists, who are admittedly less offensive than Nazis.

Worth also pointing out that the Cold War really wreaked of opportunism on both sides of the bloc. Soviets had cozy relations with some bizarre leaders out of convenience as well, take Cambodia for example.

[Sasha]

Seems absurd to see the NATO flag with Nazi one...

during the Gladio days NATO officials worked together with fashgroups and neo-nazi's all over europe; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
italy, greece, france, belgium, netherlands, basically everywhere they had a stay behind network set up to supposedly fight the Russians if they would invade fash groups where responsible for the non-military sections.
obviously these groups ran amok with all the guns, bombs, funding and guaranteed state cover up when the russians never came. they killed massive amounts of civilians in italy alone; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_massacre

thats not to say i think the pro-kiev fash groups now are also directly funded by NATO as well, just that one shouldnt think it that strange a connection.

[cyu]

the Cold War really wreaked of opportunism on both sides of the bloc. Soviets had cozy relations with some bizarre leaders out of convenience as well

If the following is true of corporations, it's probably also true of any hierarchical organization - the ascension of Stalin being a prime example. Then again, I suspect it's both a combination of sociopaths drawn to hierarchies, as well as hierarchies producing sociopaths: http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?t=180387

[Sandy Becker]

This is a joke, yes? The leadership of the Ukrainian "revolution" is riddled with actual fascists -- including the Right Sector folks and the older line followers of Bandera. It is a correct usage by cyu, to call them fascists. This is not the lazy, quasi-left general epithet usage of the word. These are bona fide, kill-the-jews, gun toting, terror fomenting, fascists.

[cyu]

https://ukraineantifascistsolidarity...tion-of-nazism

the United Nations met and discussed a resolution on Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance.

115 countries voted in favour, 55 abstained (all of the EU countries) and only US, Canada and Ukraine voted against.

“Expresses deep concern about the glorification, in any form, of the Nazi movement, neo-Nazism and former members of the Waffen SS organization, including by erecting monuments and memorials and holding public demonstrations in the name of the glorification of the Nazi past, the Nazi movement and neo-Nazism, as well as by declaring or attempting to declare such members and those who fought against the anti-Hitler coalition and collaborated with the Nazi movement participants in national liberation movements;”