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Go out and vote
If you live in a democratic nation, please just take some time out of your day and vote on issues or candidates whenever possible. For example, if leftists decided that both candidates weren't good enough in the 2012 election and not voted then we would be stuck with a facist called Mitt Romney. I know most candidates are capitalist but just vote for the lesser evil. Hopefully that can help slow the bourgeoisie's dictatorship until the revolution.
Yes, because telling workers to support a bourgeois politician running at the head of a bourgeois political party and program teaches workers all the lessons they need to know about their antagonistic relationship to capitalism.
Did you read the entire post? I am saying vote for the lesser evil, i'm not saying the lesser evil will be a good candidate.
No, but I understand why you would think so. The differences between the candidates are small and would not alter things much, if at all.
Secondly, Romney was not a fascist unless you know something I do not know. He is a first rate bourgeois asshole, but not a fascist. Please don't fudge terms since it makes it look like you are prone to hyperbole and misinformation.
Thirdly, how did Obama being elected slow down bourgeois dictatorship at all? I'm thinking that you don't know what is meant by bourgeois dictatorship. Capitalist dictatorship involves not only an outright dictatorship as is meant in common parlance but refers to objective political control as well as social control. This consists of propaganda: taking the forms of 'spin' on the news, think tanks, bribes of officials, and a disproportionate control over the law which maintains their hegemony. It also consists of the very system itself which perpetuates their status.
The very political system requires its own perpetuation and even if there were to be reforms or a lessened advancement of shitdom for the working class the system itself would be maintained. Any of those reforms that could be passed would be in the service of maintaining said system, Capitalism, and the dictatorship that serves it.
Some think that actions towards reform will foment class consciousness and lead to a socialist revolution that either uses the state apparatus or overthrows it directly. In fact, in my opinion it is even possible that class consciousness could be achieved in some by these actions provided that the tools of the bourgeoisie - as mentioned above - are counter-acted. Yes, that could work for some, but for most? I doubt it.
I'm all for helping people in their day-to-day lives and don't harbor ill will towards those that want to get free healthcare and the like for the population; however, I do not think that such will cause a revolution, build mass class-consciousness, nor be able to achieve said reforms on the terms of any of the revolutionaries that support them.
Society does not consist of individuals but expresses the sum of interrelations, the relations within which these individuals stand. ~ Karl Marx
formerly Triceramarx
Did you read the post? I said vote for the lesser evil, i didn't say that the lesser evil was gonna be a good candidate. In the 2012 election it was either a facist or a capitalist, take your choice.
I actually agree with the original poster. It is better to vote for the lesser of two evils. Lets just say there were two candidates, a liberal one and a fascist one, now I hate liberals but I hate fascists even more so obviously to stop the fascist from gaining power I would vote for the liberal. Note the liberals policies would be bad but not nearly as bad as the fascists.
Economic Left/Right: -10 (<- That means I am left wing)
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -9.08 (<- That means I am libertarian
From: http://www.politicalcompass.org/
"If you saw my real picture, you might wet yourself....with laughter, I might add." - Comrade Dodger
Immediate transition to Communism will be difficult, and the general public won't buy into or accept it.
"You Americans are so gullible. No, you won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism. We won’t have to fight you. We’ll so weaken your economy until you’ll fall like overripe fruit into our hands." -- Nikita Khrushchev
Khrushchev apparently said something like that, but he has a point. Even Marx said it himself. The road to communism has different steps and turns, it can't be achieved immediately.
My voting would only give legitimacy to capitalism, representative democracy, and the state - which means that my actions would directly contribute to the promotion of hierarchical authority and bourgeois policies. I don't want to put my life's future in the hands of someone else who will not have the best interest of the working class in mind and will exercise unjust authority over my life and the lives of others. That completely contradicts everything I believe in. It's bad enough to support hierarchical representation, and even worse to support reactionary hierarchial representation. I would feel like a reformist if I voted, and while I can understand why people would want better capitalism until we can change the world, I just can't settle for that. I don't want better capitalism - I want socialism - and I want it now. I want freedom as soon as I can get it. I want to shed my chains fully, not settle with handcuffs. If the world ends up forming communism through some kind of gradual reformism, that's sad, but so be it. But until I get my stateless communism, I'm going to advocate capitalism's revolutionary annhilation as soon as possible.
I can sympathize with people who feel the need to vote for the lesser of two evils, but doing so really doesn't change a thing long term. The most liberal of Democrats is still a supporter of capitalism and immoral authority. The most humane of liberals is still a supporter of limiting my freedom as an individual, and our freedom as a people.
I'm tired of flying the white flag in truce. It's time the red and black flag flies high for all to see.
"A consistent libertarian must oppose private ownership of the means of production and wage slavery, which as a component of [right-wing libertarianism], is incompatible with the principle that labor must be freely undertaken and under the control of the producer." - Noam Chomsky"The masses are the decisive element, they are the rock on which the final victory of the revolution will be built." - Rosa Luxemburg
"When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick.'" - Mikhail Bakunin
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our people have guns, why would we let them have ideas?" - bourgeois revolutionary Joseph Stalin
An Anarchist FAQ - Libertarian Socialism/Communism
yo you should read a thing before posting again, pelase.
*this is a drunk post
I'm on some sickle-hammer shit
Collective Bruce Banner shit
FKA: #FF0000, AKA Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath
damn dude, that's powerful. I wish i had that kind of charisma.
i will take that into account before i post next time.
In Australia voting is compulsory, that is probably why I find the idea of not voting so foreign.
Economic Left/Right: -10 (<- That means I am left wing
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -9.08 (<- That means I am libertarian
From: http://www.politicalcompass.org/
"If you saw my real picture, you might wet yourself....with laughter, I might add." - Comrade Dodger
No one actually takes that much notice of your voting though, because you're usually one of thousands or millions, and it's a secret ballot.
You are already in that situation, unfortunately.
How does not voting help to do that?
Some are less of a scourge upon oppressed peoples than others.
This is a false dichotomy, because you can quietly vote for rulers who are less likely to hurt people than others, and contribute to the movement for liberating the proletariat.
It pisses me off that only 2/5 of the population of the United States vote.
I actually like you bud but I get the feeling that you (much like myself when i was a baby communist) are tryna be big ol' know it all communist before actually knowing a damn thing.
seriously go on like, marxists.org or something and check out Marx's selected works -- particularly "Critique of the Gotha Programme" and learn a little more about Marxist political strategy.
Shit, while you're at it, check out the Anarchist FAQ and take a look at anarchist political strategy.
I'm on some sickle-hammer shit
Collective Bruce Banner shit
FKA: #FF0000, AKA Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath
I am pissed off at the power structures that allows this degree of casual voter suppression in the United States. I would like it if voting was compulsory like it is in Australia (as Marshal of the People alluded to). Coercion is generally negative, but one could simply not vote for any of the candidates, and it would ensure that all of the people can participate. Prisoners should also be allowed to vote too, so the (in)justice system can stopped being used primarily as a way to disenfranchise people of color in the working class.
You know that quote "if voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal"? Well, they did try to make it illegal for various groups of people and they're still fighting their enfranchisement. So if we're following the logic of that quote, perhaps voting does change something.
It shouldnt. Voting should worry you. The proletariat is realizing the uselessness of the bourgeois state to their interests. Now, this does not mean it is revolutionary. We need voter antipathy not apathy, but this is a step.
"We must flee from Time, we must create a life that is feminine and human - it is these imperative objectives that must guide us in this world heavy with catastrophes."
Jacques Camatte, Echos from the Past
"For example, to say that the relation between industrial capital and the class of the wage workers is expressed in precisely the same way in Belgium and Thailand, and that the praxis of their respective struggles should be established without taking into account in either of the two cases the factors of race or nationality, does not mean you are an extremist, but it means in effect that you have understood nothing of Marxism."
Amadeo Bordiga, Factors of Race and Nation in the Marxist Analysis
yo i don't actually believe red rose is a member of the iww lol
I'm on some sickle-hammer shit
Collective Bruce Banner shit
FKA: #FF0000, AKA Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are Themselves The Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath
What did Rose do wrong?
I get the feeling that is another insult.Originally Posted by #FF0000
Economic Left/Right: -10 (<- That means I am left wing
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -9.08 (<- That means I am libertarian
From: http://www.politicalcompass.org/
"If you saw my real picture, you might wet yourself....with laughter, I might add." - Comrade Dodger
Thanks for the pointing but i am not an anarchist but thanks anyway. If you read my first post you would see i am a new communist and just learning.
P.S. is this reply thing working? I get the feeling it isn't.
