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My own borough where most council housing is on estates. None of them are really tall, five or so floors high at most (with a few towers that are ten floors plus) but most made of concrete. There used to be a lot of council owned homes (terraced and semi-detached) with gardens, but they have been sold off in greater numbers than the big estates as they tended to be in richer neighbourhoods and were thus higher in value in real estate terms.
This is now happening everywhere across London, the government seems intent on pushing the poor out completely. Where they expect them to go, I have no idea and I suspect they don't even care.
At the end of the day I am not opposed to the idea of flats or even skyscrapers, just the crap ones that the ruling class consider suitable for the working classes. The cheap materials used and the piss poor layout and design in council housing reflects, in my view the low level of standards that the ruling classes have for the working class and poor.
The mention of castles really mystifies me: just how many castles do you think serve as anybody's primary residence today? Suffice it to say hardly anyone who can call a castle or a palace 'home' will survive the coming social war.
For an increasingly rational administration of human activities, carelessly demolishing any unjustifiably large or lavish residence sounds absolutely mental. If they can't viably be renovated to comfortably support as many occupants as possible, such extravagant residences should be replaced with appropriate accommodation where practical or otherwise preserved for their historical value.
Are there any current examples of decent high density housing that you have in mind? Are the Brownstone flats of New York such an example?
I agree here. Even if the suburbs remained, the whole idea of having things like shops and other services at great distance from where people live would have to change, no more American style mega malls or shopping parks that are only accessible by car, which by their very nature exclude a lot of people from such services. I am all in favor of making cities more human scale and that they be less imposing and distant. When it comes to urban planning I am a fan of the English anarchist Colin Ward. He didn't advocate the wholesale abolition of things like the suburbs but instead wanted to humanise such places by getting rid of things like garden fences and having communal gardens so that such communities would be less isolated and more organic.
But that is the thing, I feel if cities are to be planned then we should try an avoid doing it in a way that it ends up looking planned, in the way Soviet cities were or the ugly architecture of Le Corbusier and Erno Goldfinger. I like cities that do look a bit messy and crazy rather than the dullness of repetitive symmetry, regimentation and extreme efficiency. Efficiency has it's place but it if you take it too far then you end up with a soulless city without any character like Pyongyang.
You have a point but an even bigger problem for London and the South East is that too many people are living here as this region is the only area with any substantial economic activity, forcing people to leave other towns and cities across Britain in the hope of finding a job.
LINK
Britain really needs to become less London centric and I say that as Londoner myself who loves the city.
Why would they? That's the New York version of a Victorian terrace. That's hardly very high-density.Are there any current examples of decent high density housing that you have in mind? Are the Brownstone flats of New York such an example?
Choi Fook Estate, a recent (2006-2009 erection) public housing estate in Hong Kong. Something anyone with half-decent taste ought to admire.
The revolutionary despises public opinion. He despises and hates the existing social morality in all its manifestations. For him, morality is everything which contributes to the triumph of the revolution. Immoral and criminal is everything that stands in its way.
ex. Takayuki
Yes, I think those would count. What do you think of these:
A:
Buqshan Hotel, Yemen
B:
Housing buildings in Ivry sur Seine
C:
Apartment buildings in Australia? Couldn't find where this photo was taken but it looks good
They certainly show that big buildings don't have be drab grey blocks.
Do you know of anything written by Colin Ward that might be of interest? He sounds like he might have some good ideas but I didn't see anything directly relevant on the wiki page.
I think the aesthetic problems with the architecture of Le Corbusier et al, in style if not in layout, can be offset by allowing the inhabitants to leave their mark on the places which they've made their homes. Instead of punishing graffiti in order to enforce an uncomfortable sterility of features, communities could invite artists from among them to paint murals to brighten up those dull walls.
I'd say the soullessness of a city depends upon more than it's architecture. Cities are living, breathing spaces (even Pyonyang, although it's not breathing and living very healthily) in which large numbers of people live. Singapore's architecture is highly functional and efficient and even good-looking as far it's corporate blandness allows, but by all accounts it's a comatose place when the sun goes down because there's hardly any night life.
Agreed.
The Human Progress Group
Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the boot-maker - Mikhail Bakunin
Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains - Karl Marx
Pollution is nothing but the resources we are not harvesting. We allow them to disperse because we've been ignorant of their value - R. Buckminster Fuller
The important thing is not to be human but to be humane - Eliezer S. Yudkowsky
Check out my speculative fiction project: NOVA MUNDI
I believe that is the Chinese or Singaporean variation of McMansions. Fuck that tacky abomination.
C:
Apartment buildings in Australia? Couldn't find where this photo was taken but it looks good
Also fuck this typical liberal hogwash deriding of Corbusier and Goldfinger's fine works. The only problem with Corbusier's plans was the excessive orientation around the automobile, but this was something that plagued everything in that era, including Frank Lloyd Wright's "Broadacres" Hippie Towers in Rural Setting plan.
The revolutionary despises public opinion. He despises and hates the existing social morality in all its manifestations. For him, morality is everything which contributes to the triumph of the revolution. Immoral and criminal is everything that stands in its way.
ex. Takayuki
If you think that's tacky, then you'll probably utterly loathe the kind of thing that's fashionable in the Gulf states at the moment. Stuff like this horrific eyesore:
Personally I think even a Le Corbusier without the graffiti looks miles better than that shitpile.
The Human Progress Group
Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the boot-maker - Mikhail Bakunin
Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains - Karl Marx
Pollution is nothing but the resources we are not harvesting. We allow them to disperse because we've been ignorant of their value - R. Buckminster Fuller
The important thing is not to be human but to be humane - Eliezer S. Yudkowsky
Check out my speculative fiction project: NOVA MUNDI
Looks nice.If you think that's tacky, then you'll probably utterly loathe the kind of thing that's fashionable in the Gulf states at the moment. Stuff like this horrific eyesore:
Personally I think even a Le Corbusier without the graffiti looks miles better than that shitpile.
"Action is the real measure of intelligence" - Napoleon Hill
This is a key question for me as well. (jumping in without reading the rest of the thread) Its not just the size of the houses that is a problem. It is their location? How would people handle that? Not only who lives in what but also where...closer to sea? closer to central locations? in a greener area....etc
http://www.nyu.edu/projects/ollman/
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~manicas/pdf_files/New_Courses/Marx'sPhilosophy.pdf
http://marxmyths.org/index.php / http://www.marxists.org/subject/marx...ay/article.htm
http://www.thehobgoblin.co.uk/journal/h4holloway.html
Ask yourself this: For socialism or socialism for, you are a revolutionary
Seafront's for industry. The whole idea with the sea view being desirable is a modern manifestation of consumer society. Those things cannot be judged in abstract, as they, like many things, are product of culture and thus cannot be predicted for a post-revolutionary society.
Access to parkland and amenities shall be guaranteed by superior planning and transportation opportunities and should therefore not be an issue in the way it is today.
The revolutionary despises public opinion. He despises and hates the existing social morality in all its manifestations. For him, morality is everything which contributes to the triumph of the revolution. Immoral and criminal is everything that stands in its way.
ex. Takayuki
I wasn't gonna post anymore but this has to be one of the biggest loads of rubbish I've heard in a while.
Wow. Seriously?
Cool. You take the public apartment right next to the public train station and listen to the sound of trains all night. That'll leave the sound of the ocean and the nice views available for the people who actually appreciate them.
"Action is the real measure of intelligence" - Napoleon Hill
Go back to hoarding your rare fucking art you useless fuck.
(As an aside: I do live in a public housing estate and it is quite close to the railway, though one can't really hear shit when indoors.)
The revolutionary despises public opinion. He despises and hates the existing social morality in all its manifestations. For him, morality is everything which contributes to the triumph of the revolution. Immoral and criminal is everything that stands in its way.
ex. Takayuki
How is that a load of rubbish? Sounds fine to me.
Where you live really doesn't matter at all. Why do you care where you live? I live in a fucking swamp in NY
"But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge." ~Mikhail Bakunin
I'm sorry you truly feel that way.
I'd honestly like for you all to know what it's like to live next to soothing oceans, or vibrant green pastures with relaxing breezes.
I just get the impression you have an inferiority complex where you want impose a lifestyle of mediocrity on yourselves as if it's something righteous or noble.
"Action is the real measure of intelligence" - Napoleon Hill
I think you're a dumbass and you just like feeling like you're bourgeois or some shit. I live in a beautiful area, fuck living by the ocean or the lake it gets so fucking cold here in the winter. I think you're the inferior one and you can't comprehend communism. Now bow, bow until you've broken through the floor.
"But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge." ~Mikhail Bakunin
Heh. So much for believe we're all equals.
"Action is the real measure of intelligence" - Napoleon Hill
I know what you mean. I live in İstanbul(most of my life), a city where sea is a crucial part of the city's urban organization. There is a massive difference in living in the shitty(not necessarily low quality) inland areas far from everything and closer to the heart and the sea.
There is a bit of subjective value issue here involved.
To me, handling of the housing is one of the biggest issues for a revolution.
It is also worth mentioning though that the current system we live in does not exactly provide a solution to this either. Its just, within the context of this system it is understandable since there is a market price,inheritance..etc involved. But how would this work in a society which claims to solve "contradictions" of material life?
http://www.nyu.edu/projects/ollman/
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~manicas/pdf_files/New_Courses/Marx'sPhilosophy.pdf
http://marxmyths.org/index.php / http://www.marxists.org/subject/marx...ay/article.htm
http://www.thehobgoblin.co.uk/journal/h4holloway.html
Ask yourself this: For socialism or socialism for, you are a revolutionary
Would you treat me like an equal? I'd treat you as an equal if you treat me that way. Still bow before communism, bow until you break through the damned floor. You don't know what communism and socialism are, and we've answered your damned questions again and again, you show one sign like you're learning in a positive way, then you show the opposite and it seems more like you're being an asshole troll than someone who is trying to learn about communism. Are you fucking trying convert people or some shit? That's not gonna fucking happen.Heh. So much for believe we're all equals.
"But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge." ~Mikhail Bakunin
I understand where you're coming from as well. I lived in a very small 1 bedroom apartment with my parents for a little over 20 years. There's a massive difference between that and living next to the water.
Like you've mentioned, circumstances like this will inevitable cause strain in a communist society as there simply isn't enough "pretty" property for everyone.
So of course, you have the ones trying to "erase the notion" of what property is pretty, and which isn't. I think that's pure rubbish. People know what a turd is when they smell it, no matter how nice you try to paint it.
"Action is the real measure of intelligence" - Napoleon Hill
But- but- wouldn't you be so much happier in one of those cookie-cutter suburban houses with an adorable smiling happy family and an adorable smiling happy golden retriever and I just might hurl.
Seriously, what is with the bougie architectural ideology in this thread? I find a person who can't appreciate a nice concrete high-rise to be suspicious.
