Thread: Scientific Proof Thoughts & Intentions Can Alter The Physical World Around Us

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  1. #41
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    The effect size alone doesn't say anything about whether or not the results are consistent with chance, which also has to do with the number of trials and is reported as the p-value. It is entirely possible for an effect size to be small but the likelihood of a chance result to be extremely small.

    Look at this aspirin study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15753114

    The reduction in cardovascular risk was 9%, but it is not statistically significant because the p-value is 0.13, meaning that you can expect a chance result of that size 13 out of 100 times the experiment is run. The reduction in risk of stroke was 17%, and this was statistically significant because p=0.04, meaning that only 4 of 100 trials would end this way by chance. The usual standard is p=0.05.

    The paper containing Utts' analysis is HERE. In section 3.3, she reports the p-value for the experiments at the Stanford Research Institute as < 10^-20. That means that the likelihood of chance is 1 in 10^20 experiments.

    That's quite impressive by scientific standards. The effects, though small, are either real or a hoax. There is no requirement that remote viewing give the same accuracy of information as vision for it to be real. You can shrug your shoulders and say it's not that impressive, of course. I still think it's cool and am curious as to how it works.

    edit: Also, I don't see how 34% is "shockingly bad". That's just a subjective judgment. If low-dose aspirin would reduce your chance of a second heart attack by 34%, would you take it?

    If you want to be a skeptic you should disbelieve before evidence to the contrary is up, good evidence, which there is not for the BS in this thread.
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  2. #42
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    Say, Uri Geller's a legit psi master, isn't he, Mr. Marketsock?
    Uri Geller is a 7th Level Wizard of Psi. Can't get enough of the guy! The avatar of Xenu told me not to trust him though. I'll consult the I-Ching to see who I should believe, it's all up for grabs right now since Bigfoot is silent on the matter.
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  3. #43
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    If you want to be a skeptic you should disbelieve before evidence to the contrary is up, good evidence, which there is not for the BS in this thread.
    I did disbelieve. I was heavily into that JREF/Scicop dogma until I started to actually look into it. edit: I'm still skeptical, more skeptical than with "regular" science, but at some point it doesn't do to just gainsay something and jump up and down saying it's impossible using ridiculous arguments that are obviously prejudicial. If the research is correct, then the effect exists. That doesn't mean I accept anything except what the particular research shows, as less generous members of the forum are implying. People are ready to accept dark matter, big crunches, multiple dimensions, etc, but not a small effect that there's actually decent evidence for. We have computers and guided missles so it's suddenly the End of Science? No way...
    Last edited by argeiphontes; 27th January 2014 at 20:46.
    "This is my test of character. There you have the despotic instinct of men. They do not like the cat because the cat is free, and will never consent to become a slave. He will do nothing to your order, as the other animals do." — Jean-Jacques Rousseau.

    "The intellectual and emotional refusal 'to go along' appears neurotic and impotent." — Herbert Marcuse.

    "Our blight is ideologies — they are the long-expected Antichrist!" — Carl Gustav Jung
  4. #44
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    Yes but it does have results. Due to the placebo effect.
    lol yeah you're right but most people who rave about homeopathy don't rave about sugar pills.
  5. #45
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    lol yeah you're right but most people who rave about homeopathy don't rave about sugar pills.
    I don't personally think homeopathy is real. But the reasoning here is wrong, as it is in Choms*ky's post above. Just because an effect doesn't work by the means put forth to explain it, doesn't mean that it can't work by other means. You can have 11 theories of gravity, and none of them can be correct, but gravity will still be real.
    "This is my test of character. There you have the despotic instinct of men. They do not like the cat because the cat is free, and will never consent to become a slave. He will do nothing to your order, as the other animals do." — Jean-Jacques Rousseau.

    "The intellectual and emotional refusal 'to go along' appears neurotic and impotent." — Herbert Marcuse.

    "Our blight is ideologies — they are the long-expected Antichrist!" — Carl Gustav Jung
  6. #46
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    edit: Also, I don't see how 34% is "shockingly bad". That's just a subjective judgment. If low-dose aspirin would reduce your chance of a second heart attack by 34%, would you take it?
    Then why isn't remote viewing being used by military intelligence? The ability to peek into enemy territory would be genuinely useful.
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    seems legit. I am gonna hope for a proletariat revolution
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    Then why isn't remote viewing being used by military intelligence? The ability to peek into enemy territory would be genuinely useful.
    Because it's not good enough, apparently.
    "This is my test of character. There you have the despotic instinct of men. They do not like the cat because the cat is free, and will never consent to become a slave. He will do nothing to your order, as the other animals do." — Jean-Jacques Rousseau.

    "The intellectual and emotional refusal 'to go along' appears neurotic and impotent." — Herbert Marcuse.

    "Our blight is ideologies — they are the long-expected Antichrist!" — Carl Gustav Jung
  9. #49
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    I did disbelieve. I was heavily into that JREF/Scicop dogma until I started to actually look into it. edit: I'm still skeptical, more skeptical than with "regular" science, but at some point it doesn't do to just gainsay something and jump up and down saying it's impossible using ridiculous arguments that are obviously prejudicial. If the research is correct, then the effect exists. That doesn't mean I accept anything except what the particular research shows, as less generous members of the forum are implying. People are ready to accept dark matter, big crunches, multiple dimensions, etc, but not a small effect that there's actually decent evidence for. We have computers and guided missles so it's suddenly the End of Science? No way...
    No. The evidence is bullshit and I don't understand why you don't see that.
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    The state is the intermediary between man and human liberty. ~ Marx

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  10. #50
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    No. The evidence is bullshit and I don't understand why you don't see that.
    I just haven't run across any convincing claims as to why it's bullshit, and I've seen it all by now. Or most of it. IMO, it's either a complicated hoax/scam or its real. I could be mistaken, it could be a hoax. I can't deny that possibility either.
    "This is my test of character. There you have the despotic instinct of men. They do not like the cat because the cat is free, and will never consent to become a slave. He will do nothing to your order, as the other animals do." — Jean-Jacques Rousseau.

    "The intellectual and emotional refusal 'to go along' appears neurotic and impotent." — Herbert Marcuse.

    "Our blight is ideologies — they are the long-expected Antichrist!" — Carl Gustav Jung

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