"Clash" seems like an exaggeration, it was a shouting match with one or two very minor scuffles. The EDL did seem a bit better organised than usual though. Still, I was impressed by the anti-fascist turnout at such short notice.
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EDL clash with Anti-Fascists in Bristol
EDL and anti-fascist demonstrators clash in Bristol
Full Article: http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/EDL-anti-fascist-demonstrators-clash-Bristol/story-20410437-detail/story.html
Last edited by Sasha; 9th January 2014 at 22:53.
"Clash" seems like an exaggeration, it was a shouting match with one or two very minor scuffles. The EDL did seem a bit better organised than usual though. Still, I was impressed by the anti-fascist turnout at such short notice.
"It is slaves, struggling to throw off their chains, who unleash the movement whereby history abolishes masters." - Raoul Vaneigem
"Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality will have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things." - Karl Marx
"What distinguishes reform from revolution is not that revolution is violent, but that it links insurrection and communisation." - Gilles Dauvé
Ignorant Fascist. All EDL members need to be killed.
Why don't you introduce yourself?
The EDL are a nationalist organization, the anti-"Fascist" organization UAF appears to be more fascistic, consisting of many different normally opposed groups and private interests, united in opposition to a minority.
Bourgeois democrats, priests, Imams, activists of all parties are in UaF.
Just sayin.
■ No to scapegoating of immigrants
■ No to Islamophobia
■ Yes to diversity
Diversity includes fear of irrational religious beliefs.
It also includes nationalistic sentiment and people's right to not be particularly well informed.
A lot of people naturally correlate the decline in the economy, and their communities, to the arrival of the foreign language speaking incomers, I don't particularly agree with any form of tribalism, and frequently argue with DM readers about these diversionary tactics to create divisions among the "European Working class", but I am at least sympathetic to their despair (many having watched their countries decline(through the televised narrative of events)) I don't just shout slogans at them or boo them when they speak
Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of UAF or that kind of anti-fascism generally, but to describe them as "fascistic" seems a bit of a stretch. In any case, with the decline of the SWP, UAF has largely ceased to function in any practical sense. They don't seem to be mobilising any kind of opposition at all to the EDL national demo in Slough in about a week, for example. Anti-fascist organisation is increasingly being done by unaligned and autonomous local groups. Ostensibly UAF still exists, but it's not doing anything, not locally or nationally as far as I and others can tell. Does this correlate with what others are seeing?
"It is slaves, struggling to throw off their chains, who unleash the movement whereby history abolishes masters." - Raoul Vaneigem
"Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality will have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things." - Karl Marx
"What distinguishes reform from revolution is not that revolution is violent, but that it links insurrection and communisation." - Gilles Dauvé
They're not a particularly coherent group but they're definitely a far-right racist one. Didn't their leader recently leave because he no longer wanted to be associated with their neo-Nazi/white-power membership?
Capitalism? Capitalism is a social and economic system in which the earth, its resources and the productive forces dependent upon them, are coercively monopolised by the capitalist class for their maximised benefit, facilitating the alienation and exploitation of everyone else who must work for the owning class or suffer the consequences.
Neo-Nazi's and fascists throughout history have used misdirection and subversion, Anjem Choudhary is a fascist who lives in this country but he is muslim, David Myatt is another fascist but he is a new age guru, he used to be muslim, after he was a National socialist:
http://gblt.webs.com/
I'm saying I think EDL people when continuously confronted with reasoned explanation of the facts, referencing the internationalist nature of their own consumption, maybe by taking them to a country where Primark uses slave labour, would develop a greater understanding of the world, history and how they contribute to the things they protest about occasionally.
I'd be interested to know if their protests correspond to the prevalence of "radical islam", or child grooming in the media, but doubt the studies have been done on that.
These people essentially have no idea about history and are thus susceptible to blind patriotism, they are more xenophobic than racist, the AF groups this far seem to think the best solution is to reinforce cultural prejudices, division amongst the working class and just gang up and shout at the EDL when they demonstrate what are, on some level valid concerns, or at least sections of the political class and UKIP voters seem to think so.
Without dialogue tensions are heightening, Tommy Robinson probably got sick of the death threats and saw that very thing, maybe he feels sick he contributed to tensions rising himself, by identifying as an object of identification for those who want somebody to stand up to what they see as a decline in living standards corresponding with mass immigration and the EU.
Last edited by Revenant; 26th January 2014 at 17:27.
What a load of rubbish, fuck the EDL. I don't want to hear them speak, I just want them to go away, one way or another. How can I ever be sympathetic to a bunch of racist fools who would take any chance they could get to bash my head in? These are people who go around giving nazi salutes and you want to try and "reason" with them?■ No to scapegoating of immigrants
■ No to Islamophobia
■ Yes to diversity
Diversity includes fear of irrational religious beliefs.
It also includes nationalistic sentiment and people's right to not be particularly well informed.
A lot of people naturally correlate the decline in the economy, and their communities, to the arrival of the foreign language speaking incomers, I don't particularly agree with any form of tribalism, and frequently argue with DM readers about these diversionary tactics to create divisions among the "European Working class", but I am at least sympathetic to their despair (many having watched their countries decline(through the televised narrative of events)) I don't just shout slogans at them or boo them when they speak
What's even more hilarious is that you try to argue the UAF is worse than the EDL. Here's a quick quiz: You're a person with dark skin, walking past which of the aforementioned groups is most likely to get you beat up?
Diversity means everyone is different and that's ok. Fuck assimilationist politics.
Come little children, I'll take thee away, into a land of enchantment, come little children, the times come to play, here in my garden of magic.
"I'm tired of this "isn't humanity neat," bullshit. We're a virus with shoes."-Bill Hicks.
I feel the Bern and I need penicillin
You want English people to go away? how do you propose you achieve that, I suggested dialogue, you say fuck that and fuck them. What is your solution?
This is a quote from a facebook group with over 6,000 members:
What does the left have to say about this sense of betrayal British working class people feel, what do we have to say about economic migrants, benefits tourism or radical Islam?
Do you not think more white working class people, in poor socio economic conditions are drawn towards patriotism, nationalism etc than the left, as an outlet for their frustrations and opposition to the political class?
The whole point is either group is composed of mere hooligans, or people who care passionately about their cause, whatever way you look at it.What's even more hilarious is that you try to argue the UAF is worse than the EDL. Here's a quick quiz: You're a person with dark skin, walking past which of the aforementioned groups is most likely to get you beat up?
One however (the EDL) has no political platform, no political party, no media outlet, or media coverage that answers their particular concerns.
UAF has David Cameron as a founding signatory, all 3 main parties advance what people who read The Mail consider to be destructive EU, and Immigration policies.
You can't tell me these concerns aren't valid amongst large sections of the British Public?
Look at Nationalist sentiment North of the Border! We're part of the same country yet the English Nationalists don't have a National party when the Scot's have a National parliament and popular Independence movement, is that just an irrelevant fact?
Maybe the English want Independence too?
Well, I mean, your food is pretty horrible, so there's that. Plus, there is also the issue of, if I was in UK, I'd be just another "pikey parasite." Fuck England.
Dialogue? What would I, have to say to say to a fascist, other than, "fuck off"? Are we somehow, through heavy "talk sessions," going to rectify our diametrically opposed politics? Absolutely not, so what's the point? There is none and I wouldn't be caught dead talking to one unless it was a conversation of how I am going to merge a 2x4 with their face.
It's misplaced and stupid? Perhaps that? Or more seriously put, it's counter-productive, reactionary and suicidal.
The white proletariat of numerous European/North American countries have historically been co-opted and bamboozled by reactionary politics the same as they have for reformist politics; what's your point? This doesn't make it any less of a problem. Nationalism, patriotism, nativism, etc. are a disease which needs to be cured, if we are to proceed to phase 2. I give two fucks how someone "feels." The real world doesn't operate on "feelings."
Historically the KKK has engaged in charity works and events to combat their negative image too? Even going so far as to donate money to black Christian congergations to show they aren't "anti-black," but does this somehow make it true and negate their true politics? No.
Does this somehow negate events like the murder of 4 children during the Birmingham bombing? Or, I don't know, decades of lynch mobs? What about Emmett Till? Are we to assume, following this logic, that members of the KKK, which has no governing body, coherent political platform, etc. either, is really just "alienated white workers venting frustration," and that we, in the labor movement, should some how entertain their delusions and or work with them? What is the qualitative difference between the two groups here? The KKK, EDL, etc. are no different than nativist groups of the past like the Know Nothings as seen in movies such as Gangs of New York. It's my understanding that England has a very long and very vile history of nativist politics; it's not a new phenomena.
That's like saying, if the EDL sells enough cookies, we should just forget about that whole Exeter "incident"? William Burnside? Or the guy that decided it was "ok" to assault a deaf man in Hanley? The EDL have such a "stellar," array of cadre, don't they? Pedophiles, rapists, murderers, thugs, etc. and you want us to talk to, these people?
Neither does the KKK.
That's exactly what I'm telling you.
Fuck national liberation movements; fuck nationalism, patriotism, nativism, etc.
There, is that clear enough?
From fucking what? Like, huh? Are you seriously suggesting that we should entertain the idea of a national liberation movement to free England from England? An independent England separate from England? The fuck?
Come little children, I'll take thee away, into a land of enchantment, come little children, the times come to play, here in my garden of magic.
"I'm tired of this "isn't humanity neat," bullshit. We're a virus with shoes."-Bill Hicks.
I feel the Bern and I need penicillin
if the betrayal and anger of the british working class is directed at bourgoisie, then there is no problem, if it is directed at other workers, immigrants, minorities than that is a big problem, cause then the british working class is helping the bourgoisie in its devide and conquer stragety. and seriously, not the "economic migrants" are the problem, not the other workers, but the bosses.
oh im certain they are, these are stupid concerns though, again the bosses are the enemy, not a brown skinned worker who might has a dialect.
All i want is a Marxist Hunk.
It is true that labor produces for the rich wonderful things – but for the worker it produces privation. It produces palaces – but for the worker, hovels. It produces beauty – but for the worker, deformity. It replaces labor by machines, but it throws one section of the workers back into barbarous types of labor and it turns the other section into a machine. It produces intelligence – but for the worker, stupidity, cretinism.
Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!
Per Levy, is this not snobbery to call the working classes who are subjected to the bourgeois media as "stupid" or "big problem" when they inevitably adopt false consciousness in the absence of revolutionary left wing consciousness?
I am not making excuses for the working classes, but they lack a university or political education and the time to be adequately informed, many who do have the time lack the incentive, merely getting irate at the presence of any political figure on the television.
This term "fascist" is in very real danger of becoming meaningless through over use, how do you decide that a Nationalist organization, that cites support of human rights and democratic interests in opposition to Shariah law is fascist?
You sound like the one opposed to human rights, diversity and democracy.
Your comparison to the KKK is ridiculous really, there are groups comparable in the UK but your silence on them speaks volumes, the KKK may not have a political platform, but Libertardians, neo-Cons like Mccain in Ukraine and Ron Paulites do, EDL are more Paulite, the ostracization of large swathes of the British working class, deemed stupid, who's concerns are of no interest to "the left" plays into the hands of, actual, prexisting fascist groups in this country.
To fuck them you need to acknowledge they exist first, then unless you're some kind of bizarre flasher/rapist, you will need to get to know them a bit, then you invite them out, after a period of time you win them round, whisper sweet nothings in their ear, then you fuck them.
haha, no silly, UK independence from Europe, UKIP is quite popular in some parts of England, it's kind of seen as a "protest vote" against the political establishment.
Fascism
You have no idea what the EDL are. The EDL are the type of people that, in my local area, attacked a Kurdish shop and beat up the owners whilst their children watched on. They're the type of people who see women walking about with their children and then attack them just because their wearing a hijab. There's a difference between having reactionary, nationalist views (which the EDL do have) and openly attacking an oppressed minority. There's nothing redeemable about that organisation and it should be opposed wherever it or it offshoots manifest.
Modern democracy is nothing but the freedom to preach whatever is to the advantage of the bourgeoisie - Lenin
Good on anyone that stands up to racists and bullies, simple as that
