EDL clash with Anti-Fascists in Bristol

[Per Levy]

No it definitely is what I have been saying all along, EDL are one of the few outlets of Nationalist sentiment, patriotism that aren't underground fascist or extremist, or are you going to tell me what I'm saying like you tell the EDL what they are, do and say?

and where do you got this lovely idea about what the edl is? from their website? everytime i see a video of a edl demonstration i see nazi salutes and hear tons of "pakis" wich acording to you isnt racist since the edl is only patriotic and not "extremist"

Because you think something doesn't make it so, many people join the EDL because patriotism speaks to their concerns, not because they are adherents to the philosophy and doctrine of fascism.

you do realize that tommy robinson(a former nazi himself) left the edl because it was filled with nazis and racists, right?

The obstinacy with which you retain this view to me signifies slightly fascist tendencies.

you have no idea what fascism is, obviously.

A violent nationalist organization i'm willing to accept they are, but tbh I've seen no evidence the EDL are a fascist group, violent opposition with support from the establishment will push them towards fascism imo.

if i recall the reason tommy robinson gave to why he left the eld is that the edl was filled with "dangerous, extreme right wingers". yeah nothing fascist about that.

but since we're here to idolize the working classes

you're not working class are you? or otherwise your wouldnt utter such nonsense, there is nothing to be idolized about the working class, we have often times shit lifes, shit jobs, low pay, neither politcal or economic power, we're opressed, shat on, getting devided and what not. there is nothing great about being working class. what we want is to end the class system and that means to abolish the working class as well.

[Nakidana]

You are selectively highlighting facts to suit your purpose, by focusing on the "extremist" elements,

Listen, I don't care which part of the EDL we focus on, they'll still be reactionary shitbags. If you participate in an EDL protest you are reactionary, it doesn't matter if you're peaceful or not, if you perform Nazi salutes or not, if you scream paki or not. The purpose of these protests is quite clear.

I mean for christ sake man who do you think you're kidding? In a matter of seconds anyone can go to YouTube, type in "EDL demonstration" and see what kind of people we're dealing with here.

+ YouTube Video

attracted to an organization that engages in public demonstrations and community organizing,

Participating in public demonstrations and community organizing does not automatically make your organization progressive.

you are doing exactly what the media does when they tarnish "anti-cuts" protesters, by focusing on the masked vandals who smash up people's businesses.

As mentioned, all EDL people are idiots, but the fact of the matter is that a huge part of the EDL are extreme right wingers.

The majority of EDL members are not Neo-Nazi's, the Neo-Nazi's as mentioned make propaganda posters calling the EDL the JDL, and are thoroughly anti-semitic and underground, but they probably recruit people from the EDL, former members of the EDL have also been removed for Nazism, Tommy Robinson has also publically denounced Racism, Fascism and Nazism.

Per Levy addressed part of this, but I'll just mention that even if you remove all the Nazi elements from EDL, it will still be a reactionary and racist far-right movement. Politically I have nothing whatsoever in common with them.

Many of these groups have much more developed ideological systems than the EDL, who are basically a one issue organization highlighting an absence of political/public discourse about Immigration and Islam.

First of all I disagree that that's the purpose of the EDL. Second even if that was the purpose, it's racist hogwash because there is no "absence of discourse about immigration and Islam". In fact the current discourse in mainstream media is both anti-immigrant and islamophobic.

I think people who move to the UK from undeveloped economies are also, if not more susceptible to ideological manipulation.

That's cute, "immigrants are more susceptible to ideological manipulation" says the guy who takes EDL propaganda at face value.

What do you think of Tommy Robinson's current endeavours with the Quilliam foundation, are you equally as cynical about his motivations for that side of his involvement in opposition to Islam as you are about the EDL and people who join it?

Of course, considering the idiot's past who the hell could take it seriously? Just eight hours before he left the EDL, he had been spewing the same old EDL trash. Also, it's typical for far-right personalities and movements to reinvent themselves in order to gain a public following.

[Revenant]

We are not here to idolize the working class. Where the hell did you get that idea? We are here to create class consciousness in the working class in order to create a classless society. This does not mean we pander to parts of the working class when they develop ideas and ideologies which are contrary to this goal.

No it seems you violently oppose them, actively try to silence them, and dismiss their concerns about Islam and Immigration as delusions.

Also it seems you attempt to force them to conform, to the laws implemented by the Bourgeois state to quash dissent against open borders that only serve to benefit the capitalist class, with some minor benefits for anybody coming from an underdeveloped economy.

The fears and concerns you say the "white" working class has and expresses through organisations as the EDL are based within the nature of capitalism where the bourgeoisie specifically creates and exploits fear of and division between groups.
The EDL is a willing tool as well as an accelerator that exploits and furthers this goal.
As such there is no negotiation or debate with the EDL. The organisation is a class enemy working with the system. They do not only act as a channel for false class consciousness but they actively promote this false consciousness by pitting workers against each other.

You say the Bourgeoisie specifically creates and exploits divisions, would you agree that one way they've done this is by opening up the borders and exploiting cheap immigrant labour?

Do you think unchecked, unregulated immigration is a good thing for a disintegrating capitalist economy, why do you support that? How do you think diversifying and increasing cultural divisions within the working class benefits the working class?

When I worked in the factories around Gatwick Airport it was like a micro-United Nations, in my experience the fewest antagonisms existed between English workers and immigrants and the more pronounced divisions, prejudices even, existed amongst immigrants from opposed nations, religious ideologies or cultures. I could recount to you a number of anecdotes highlighting the incompatibility of some forms of Religious ideology, that exist in 21st century Britain only because of the decisions of a political class, that is alienated from it's citizens and growing more so all the time.

Why the fuck are people like Anjem Choudry allowed into this country to try and institute Shariah Law, promote fascist ideology, decry freedom of speech and spit upon our (and his own) democratic rights?

Is the real division amongst the working classes created by this broad, ill defined, rag tag group that affiliates itself with opposition to what it calls fascism, yet uses fascist tactics to enforce will of the political classes against the "white" British working class, dissenting against their freedom of assembly and expression?

Is this not the latest attempt to thoroughly demoralize and destroy the working classes, after 40 years of succeeding in that very task?

[Revenant]

They do so under the guise of combating radical islam but in reality target specific ethnic groups by false generalizations. Which is the definition of racism.

The EDL is therefore thoroughly reactionary, racist and large parts of the EDL are fascists pur sang. Maybe not in the traditional definition of the term but definitely in their expression, politics and tactics.

The EDL is not opposed by neo-nazi's and fascist groups. Only when those groups member base are threatened is that the case. In fact a large portion of the EDL members are drawn from fascist and neo-nazi groups and parties. Not to mention the fact that foreign neo nazi groups and fascist participate in EDL demo's and actions.

We however do not give a platform for fascists and racists....not even when they are composed of members of the working class. They need to be rooted out like the poisonous weed they are not debated with so they can spew more of their poison.

The discourse we do have is with everybody outside such groups. That is who we will talk to and whose issues we will address.

We also do not say yes to diversity to include just any ideology and belief or nationalistic sentiment. We very specifically exclude groups, ideologies and sentiments. Especially those who actively oppose the creation of class consciousness and oppose the abandonment of capitalism. Diversity means that everybody is not the same...not that all ideologies should be accepted and tolerated.

Your defense of the EDL is spurious and misguided as the most optimistic interpretation of your motives to do so.

My motives are merely the investigation of what I consider to be reified conceptions applied to a subsection of society, who another more conformist section of society vehemently disagree with but never try to disprove.

Seriously people just gang up on the EDL and throw things at them, including hypostatized ideas about who or what they are.

I'd also like to know more about this UaF and Antifa group, are they really that diverse or are they populated by left wing university students and muslims exclusively?

Are there some misguided people who support these counter demonstrations, saying they are standing up for freedom of speech and diversity, by attempting to silence and eradicate a group exercising their freedom of speech?

I honestly don't think you have a clue about Fascism in this country, Anjem Choudry is closer to a fascist than Tommy Robinson, do the "Anti-Fascist" brigades stand outside his mosque and protest him?

Why not?

[Revenant]

Listen, I don't care which part of the EDL we focus on, they'll still be reactionary shitbags. If you participate in an EDL protest you are reactionary, it doesn't matter if you're peaceful or not, if you perform Nazi salutes or not, if you scream paki or not. The purpose of these protests is quite clear.

I mean for christ sake man who do you think you're kidding? In a matter of seconds anyone can go to YouTube, type in "EDL demonstration" and see what kind of people we're dealing with here.

+ YouTube Video

Do you think going to youtube and typing in "EDL demonstration" constitutes a thorough analysis of the organization and it's elements?

That just appears to be anti-White working class propaganda and could have been manufactured by anybody..I've asked you fairly respectfully whether you have any clue about the EDL or Fascism and constantly you have responded in the double negative.

Participating in public demonstrations and community organizing does not automatically make your organization progressive.

Protesting against harbouring reactionary ideological views that are incompatible to the 21st century is progressive, protesting against Islam and Shariah Law is progressive, protesting in favour of democracy and human rights is progressive, and attempting to redefine what "Patriotism" is, as they do on their official website, highlighting human rights, democracy and pluralism are progressive things.

I don't think the EDL necessarily espouse a Monarchist/aristocratic or bourgeois conception of patriotism, but a democratic one, I think they are actually quite transparent about this all, way more transparant than actual fascist, Neo Nazi or WS groups are.

I don't think the EDL is a trojan horse, but it could have been coopted, which is actually why Tommy Robinson left it, you misrepresent the situation again, maybe you feel you are at war against "fascism" and that I might be the enemy, well rest assured I am not.

As mentioned, all EDL people are idiots, but the fact of the matter is that a huge part of the EDL are extreme right wingers.

Most the working class in europe are "idiots" then, because many of them harbour "reactionary" ideas about the EU.

Per Levy addressed part of this, but I'll just mention that even if you remove all the Nazi elements from EDL, it will still be a reactionary and racist far-right movement. Politically I have nothing whatsoever in common with them.

In what way is it racist to oppose a religious ideology, and to espouse common sense when it comes to immigration, it's almost like you wilfully deny there are instances of deeply reactionary religious practices amongst immigrant communities, when in reality even many ex muslims, and current muslims working against extremism confirm many of the things Tommy Robinson says.
Would you say you have more in common with Nick Clegg than the EDL on the specific questions of Immigration, EU membership and Islam?

First of all I disagree that that's the purpose of the EDL. Second even if that was the purpose, it's racist hogwash because there is no "absence of discourse about immigration and Islam". In fact the current discourse in mainstream media is both anti-immigrant and islamophobic.

The media plays on the absence of political discourse, the reluctance of politicians to cause disharmony in the coalition by bringing up a fundamental point of disagreement for liberals and conservatives, we are so alienated from the political class it can easily be portrayed that all 3 main parties are part of a liberal conspiracy to betray Britain, that's the Daily mail and Express' angle, it's also UKIP's angle, they gain prominence playing on this fact and more accurately reflect Hitler's Nazi party in that they are superficially populist and pro-democracy, but ideologically much more aristocratic.

That's cute, "immigrants are more susceptible to ideological manipulation" says the guy who takes EDL propaganda at face value.

I refuse to believe the EDL's manifesto and mission statement, coverage and news that i've read so far is "propaganda", sorry, what I've seen from you are the use of trigger words, accusations, slurs and propaganda to substantiate your position of opposition to "fascism".

Of course, considering the idiot's past who the hell could take it seriously? Just eight hours before he left the EDL, he had been spewing the same old EDL trash. Also, it's typical for far-right personalities and movements to reinvent themselves in order to gain a public following.

I think they are just typical working class people, I think prison for any amount of time does "reinvent" a person, it makes you think deeply about life and the things you value, what you care about and you get used to thinking about the future and immediacy of our problems.

Prison can make somebody a better person or it can make them worse, Tommy's trajectory since coming out of prison tells me you are wrong, but you may be proven right, the Nazi influences may take over, as mentioned earlier in this thread there are already various offshoot groups, "infidels" and small "defense leagues", who parrot the BNP by referring to the EDL as the JDL and suggest Tommy and his cousin are Zionists.

[Nakidana]

Do you think going to youtube and typing in "EDL demonstration" constitutes a thorough analysis of the organization and it's elements?

No, but I think it makes the far-right nature of the EDL pretty obvious.

That just appears to be anti-White working class propaganda and could have been manufactured by anybody..

It's a Guardian piece you moron.

I've asked you fairly respectfully whether you have any clue about the EDL or Fascism and constantly you have responded in the double negative.

Yes. There, you happy now?

Protesting against harbouring reactionary ideological views that are incompatible to the 21st century is progressive, protesting against Islam and Shariah Law is progressive,

No, it's not. Islam isn't taking over, Sharia Law isn't taking over, there is no reason to stage racist protests in Muslim communities in the UK, unless you're an islamophobic fool who really just wants to scream at brown people.

protesting in favour of democracy and human rights is progressive, and attempting to redefine what "Patriotism" is, as they do on their official website, highlighting human rights, democracy and pluralism are progressive things.

That's not what the EDL does though. In their official statements they might proclaim it, but when you look at their actual protests it's obvious that it's all about hating Muslims.

I don't think the EDL necessarily espouse a Monarchist/aristocratic or bourgeois conception of patriotism, but a democratic one, I think they are actually quite transparent about this all, way more transparant than actual fascist, Neo Nazi or WS groups are.

What the hell is a "democratic conception of patriotism"? Oh and the EDL supports the monarchy, looking forward to see you wiggle yourself out of that one (I've no doubt you'll try, seeing as how you earlier tried to excuse their Nazi salutes).

you misrepresent the situation again, maybe you feel you are at war against "fascism" and that I might be the enemy, well rest assured I am not.

I won't rest assured. If you support the EDL you are the enemy. I'm actually surprised you haven't been restricted yet.

Most the working class in europe are "idiots" then, because many of them harbour "reactionary" ideas about the EU.

I don't see how that follows from my statement. I was referring to people supporting the EDL, which most of the working class in europe does not.

In what way is it racist to oppose a religious ideology,

It becomes racist when the religious ideology is conflated with people of a specific ethnicity and dress. Which is very much the case in the West today.

and to espouse common sense when it comes to immigration,

I don't think it's common sense at all. I think it's paranoid ramblings.

it's almost like you wilfully deny there are instances of deeply reactionary religious practices amongst immigrant communities,

Well, I don't, I just know that those religious practices have been blown out of proportion by the media adn that they're not isolated to immigrants.

when in reality even many ex muslims, and current muslims working against extremism confirm many of the things Tommy Robinson says.

Not really surprising that there are Muslims out there who're just as big idiots as Tommy Robinson.

Would you say you have more in common with Nick Clegg than the EDL on the specific questions of Immigration, EU membership and Islam?

Immigration and Islam - Probably. I'm not sure what Nick Clegg's exact views are on those issues but I can't imagine them to be worse than the EDL's.
EU - No, but although I'm against the EU it's for very different reasons than the EDL's. I have no problem with immigration.

The media plays on the absence of political discourse, the reluctance of politicians to cause disharmony in the coalition by bringing up a fundamental point of disagreement for liberals and conservatives, we are so alienated from the political class it can easily be portrayed that all 3 main parties are part of a liberal conspiracy to betray Britain, that's the Daily mail and Express' angle, it's also UKIP's angle, they gain prominence playing on this fact and more accurately reflect Hitler's Nazi party in that they are superficially populist and pro-democracy, but ideologically much more aristocratic.

Okay so they're all scumbags, what's your point? This does not in any way excuse the EDL.

I refuse to believe the EDL's manifesto and mission statement, coverage and news that i've read so far is "propaganda",

No wonder you're so clueless.

[QUOTE=Revenant;2716996]sorry, what I've seen from you are the use of trigger words, accusations, slurs and propaganda to substantiate your position of opposition to "fascism".

I think they are just typical working class people,

Easy for a white guy such as yourself to say. You're not the one worried about getting beaten up in the street.

[PhoenixAsh]

No it seems you violently oppose them, actively try to silence them, and dismiss their concerns about Islam and Immigration as delusions.

You seem to keep making the inane mistake to equate the EDL with the working class instead of a what it actually is: a small part of the working class. The EDL does not represent THE working class as it is NOT and organisation that is concerned with THE working class.

Also it seems you attempt to force them to conform, to the laws implemented by the Bourgeois state to quash dissent against open borders that only serve to benefit the capitalist class, with some minor benefits for anybody coming from an underdeveloped economy.

No I expect them to be utterly annihilated. I do not even want to spend any effort and time in rehabilitating fascists. We do NOT talk with fascists.

This has nothing to do with bourgeoisie laws but with the basic principles of the revolutionary left of non acceptance for discrimination and zero tolerance for fascism.

In fact...I think you do not belong on this board. I don't think you are a revolutionary leftist but a racist apologizer and a SF troll. Since your rhetorical bullshit in defense of racism and fascism and their organisations is exactly the same as how these movements justify their existence.

You say the Bourgeoisie specifically creates and exploits divisions, would you agree that one way they've done this is by opening up the borders and exploiting cheap immigrant labour?

Which is exactly the reason we need to fight organisations that perpetuate and exploit that ideal for their own gain often by spreading false information. Such as the EDL.

Do you think unchecked, unregulated immigration is a good thing for a disintegrating capitalist economy, why do you support that? How do you think diversifying and increasing cultural divisions within the working class benefits the working class?

I do not think it matters. But you do unmask yourself here as a nationalist ethnicist. Because we are not talking about economic effects of immigration (which are contrary to popular believe perpetuated by organisations like the EDL really minor on the job markets) but about the cultural impact "the other people" have. And THAT is pure racism.

When I worked in the factories around Gatwick Airport it was like a micro-United Nations, in my experience the fewest antagonisms existed between English workers and immigrants and the more pronounced divisions, prejudices even, existed amongst immigrants from opposed nations, religious ideologies or cultures. I could recount to you a number of anecdotes highlighting the incompatibility of some forms of Religious ideology, that exist in 21st century Britain only because of the decisions of a political class, that is alienated from it's citizens and growing more so all the time.

This narrative is ad odds with all other arguments you are making.

Why the fuck are people like Anjem Choudry allowed into this country to try and institute Shariah Law, promote fascist ideology, decry freedom of speech and spit upon our (and his own) democratic rights?

Your democratic rights? Are you taking a piss? You sound like a nationalist asshole....which you apparently are. Why don't you pack up and go back to Stromfront ?

Is the real division amongst the working classes created by this broad, ill defined, rag tag group that affiliates itself with opposition to what it calls fascism, yet uses fascist tactics to enforce will of the political classes against the "white" British working class, dissenting against their freedom of assembly and expression?

Is this not the latest attempt to thoroughly demoralize and destroy the working classes, after 40 years of succeeding in that very task?

Dude...you are a fucking nazi. Exactly the same ideology.

Again...the EDL does not represent the working class. It is nothing to do with working class interests. It isn't concerned with working class interests. It isn't concerned with the position of the working class. It is an organisation which exploits the working class. perpetuates its missery and creates false class consciousness by racism and fascism.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

That just appears to be anti-White working class propaganda and could have been manufactured by anybody..

Did this just slip past everyone? The EDL is the end-all-be-all of the working class? The mass-movement of the proletariat, as it were? And, anti-white. Loss of words, etc.

[tachosomoza]

Yammering about something being "anti-white" should result in an instant ban.

[PhoenixAsh]

My motives are merely the investigation of what I consider to be reified conceptions applied to a subsection of society, who another more conformist section of society vehemently disagree with but never try to disprove.

Seriously people just gang up on the EDL and throw things at them, including hypostatized ideas about who or what they are.

I'd also like to know more about this UaF and Antifa group, are they really that diverse or are they populated by left wing university students and muslims exclusively?

Are there some misguided people who support these counter demonstrations, saying they are standing up for freedom of speech and diversity, by attempting to silence and eradicate a group exercising their freedom of speech?

I honestly don't think you have a clue about Fascism in this country, Anjem Choudry is closer to a fascist than Tommy Robinson, do the "Anti-Fascist" brigades stand outside his mosque and protest him?

Why not?

The more posts I read from you in this topic...the more I am convinced you are a national socialist troll.

Your arguments exactly the same arguments that nazi's and fascists use to argue against immigrants and justify their actions.

Not one single argument you make here is compatible with any revolutionary LEFT wing ideology

In fact...your entire argument is...from the defense of cultural purity, the job stealing by immigrants, the arguments against immigration, the defending of white working class, your anti antifa arguments....are only entirely compatible with rightwing fascist and neo nazi ideology.

Just a warning here. That is seriously how you come across. So if you are not and are only seriously misguided and have no clue what the hell you are talking about...I seriously suggest you start readjusting your ideological position.

edit: O well...I just read your last post and you remarks about antiworking class propaganda, exercising freedom of speech and saying others are more fascist than the EDL...

I have to retract my caveat that you might be merely misguided. Because I do not think you are. I think you know exactly what you are saying and I am no certain you are an SF troll. Word for word the same arguments. Word for word.

[Sinister Intents]

This fucker 'Revenant' needs banned now....

[Le Libérer]

This fucker 'Revenant' needs banned now....

The fucker 'Revenant' is now banned.

[Derendscools]

Interesting, Why was Revenant banned, what am I missing here?
Nakidana, you seem emotional, why are you mad?

PhoenixAsh said

No I expect them to be utterly annihilated. I do not even want to spend any effort and time in rehabilitating fascists. We do NOT talk with fascists.

What!? Right lets not communicate with them... Because that would stupid. AND TO BE UTTERLY ANNIHILATED?! well... good luck friend.

SF troll

Good argument... Calling someone a troll.

nationalist ethnicist

How does he seem like a nationalist ethnicist?

Dude...you are a fucking nazi.

Bravo, bravo........

Revenant, if you're reading, its not fair to blame the immigrants with cultural division, I remember one of the things Tommy said was that the Muslims were unwilling or unable to integrate, but I don't think that's true, and these statements only help to alienate everyone.

What Revenant was saying is that people share a concern, and that concern happens to be Islam and Immigration. Why not discuss it?

Nakidana said

I won't rest assured. If you support the EDL you are the enemy. I'm actually surprised you haven't been restricted yet.

Nice, a stupid argument that makes no sense, is that how you make friends?

It becomes racist when the religious ideology is conflated with people of a specific ethnicity and dress. Which is very much the case in the West today.

That doesn't make any sense. Some people want to talk about the religion(which Im assuming is Islam) and others want to add race to it, he was referring to culture and not race... So just FORGET about it, right? and lets not talk about it at all? And how is it very much the case in the west today? Islamaphobia=Having a negative opinion of Islam?

when in reality even many ex muslims, and current muslims working against extremism confirm many of the things Tommy Robinson says.

Not really surprising that there are Muslims out there who're just as big idiots as Tommy Robinson.

If we are talking about Islam then what they have said is true, maybe you should study Islam, its pretty sick.

Easy for a white guy such as yourself to say. You're not the one worried about getting beaten up in the street.

Well how do you whats streets are safe and for who? Although this is an area I am not very well aware of. Nakidana, are you worried about getting beaten up on the streets?

And then PhoenixAshs'

The more posts I read from you in this topic...the more I am convinced you are a national socialist troll.

Your arguments exactly the same arguments that nazi's and fascists use to argue against immigrants and justify their actions.

Not one single argument you make here is compatible with any revolutionary LEFT wing ideology

In fact...your entire argument is...from the defense of cultural purity, the job stealing by immigrants, the arguments against immigration, the defending of white working class, your anti antifa arguments....are only entirely compatible with rightwing fascist and neo nazi ideology.

Just a warning here. That is seriously how you come across. So if you are not and are only seriously misguided and have no clue what the hell you are talking about...I seriously suggest you start readjusting your ideological position.

edit: O well...I just read your last post and you remarks about antiworking class propaganda, exercising freedom of speech and saying others are more fascist than the EDL...

I have to retract my caveat that you might be merely misguided. Because I do not think you are. I think you know exactly what you are saying and I am no certain you are an SF troll. Word for word the same arguments. Word for word.

Wow! How could you summarize one person like that, by understanding very little about them, and addressing one concern. Calling him misguided is simply wrong. Just call someone a Nazi and they will disappear apparently?
He shouldn't be banned for childish reasons, like sharing a concern and interest that, according to him, average people like you and me share. But I guess you guys don't converse with fascists, even though he wasn't one. Revenant has clearly stated that he is sympathetic to peoples concerns, and has done nothing to show he is hateful, the people opposed to him were far more hateful.

[Yukari]

Interesting, Why was Revenant banned, what am I missing here?

Why is so hard to swallow for all the trolls, idiots and the rest who come here in flocks that the forum is called REVLeft - meaning that the discussions taking place are to be had from a revolutionary standpoint - which is not in conceivable manner to be understood as "where self-styled leftists of all stripes debate the same reactionary and liberal positions time and time again while holding our hats in our hands-left". Go somewhere else if that's what you seek.

What Revenant was saying is that people share a concern, and that concern happens to be Islam and Immigration. Why not discuss it?

So thoroughly has this dead horse been beaten to smithereens, that whatever goo residue happens to be left on the sidewalk has dried up in the sun a long time ago. Our position is clear: Solidarity with immigrants, and there's no compromise in effort to kiss arse to xenophobes which the EDL crowd undoubtedly are - that is unless you take everything at face value and legitimately think that the nationalist organisations are "just lookin' out for their countryy..." and perceive this a phenomena not to be treated with hostility in part of the left. No sympathy is offered to anyone shedding tears for their precious culture and country, the people who all the while rave about anti-whiteness and the low intensity race war being waged by the turban wearing bus driver.

It has been long before established that the workers might be led astray ( so to say ) by reactionary movements. It's nothing new nor interesting that the impoverished folk have now sought to blame their ills on foreigners and the EU as they are for the most part unaware or ignorant of the leftist narrative. We are not ignoring them despite not holding our breath in hopes of recruiting them either, but nevertheless this board is not a place for recruitment drives or having conversations with the xenophobes.

[PhoenixAsh]

Interesting, Why was Revenant banned, what am I missing here?

You are missing here that the guy was a nazi troll.

What!? Right lets not communicate with them... Because that would stupid. AND TO BE UTTERLY ANNIHILATED?! well... good luck friend.

Exactly. We do not communicate with fascist organisations like the EDL.

What Revenant was saying is that people share a concern, and that concern happens to be Islam and Immigration. Why not discuss it?

No...what Revenant was saying was that the EDL was a legitimate representation of workers in justified defense of their culture and jobs against the spread of immigrants and Islam which is threatening white working class culture. Any criticism or oppositions to the EDL is anti white worker propaganda and is fascist. He also equated antifa with fascism saying it was dominated by leftwing students and muslims that initiated violence against the EDL which was basically peaceful and wanted to talk but was forced into violence. And he opposed non white immigration because it exploits the working class and because non white immigrants are easily manipulated by unwanted ideology. He sauced that with blanket statements of freedom of speech and pointing out that other non white or non English individuals were attacking his rights and that we should include racist views because we are supposedly for diversity and labeling it as "legitimate concerns".

This entire line of reasoning is literally, word for word, what fascists and neo-nazi's use for legitimizing their position, existence and justification for their actions.

No revolutionary leftist would ever call the EDL a legitimate representation of the working class intent on voicing concern. Rather they would acknowledge that the EDL exploits concerns in a segment of the working class arising from capitalism to further stir nationalism, xenophobia, division and populism...in order to exert power and create an effective street army....which needs to be opposed by any means necessary. They would acknowledge the stated intent by the EDL for class collaboration obedience in exchange for strong position against non white immigrants. They would not advocate dialogue with the EDL...but rather with the working class itself. And they would most definitely acknowledge the EDLs violent opposition towards the revolutionary left in specific and unions in general.

If we are talking about Islam then what they have said is true, maybe you should study Islam, its pretty sick.

Maybe you should study religion and understand that Islam isn't any different from Christianity or Judaism.

Wow! How could you summarize one person like that, by understanding very little about them, and addressing one concern. Calling him misguided is simply wrong. Just call someone a Nazi and they will disappear apparently?
He shouldn't be banned for childish reasons, like sharing a concern and interest that, according to him, average people like you and me share. But I guess you guys don't converse with fascists, even though he wasn't one. Revenant has clearly stated that he is sympathetic to peoples concerns, and has done nothing to show he is hateful, the people opposed to him were far more hateful.

See above. I understand him well enough to know he wasn't addressing the concern so much as defending and legitimizing the EDL through nationalist, racist and bourgeoisie sentiments forming an ideological whole that is akin to the basis of nazism.

[Nakidana]

I'll just address the points directed at me. As to the rest I agree with Yukari and PhoenixAsh, no need to restate what they said.

Nakidana, you seem emotional, why are you mad?

Well I'm very sorry sir, but it's hard not to become emotional when faced with an EDL supporter who claims that Guardian footage from EDL protests is "made up" and that performing Nazi salutes does not make you a nazi.

Nice, a stupid argument that makes no sense, is that how you make friends?

What's stupid about it? We're revolutionary leftists. The EDL is a far-right movement. That makes them an enemy. It makes perfect sense.

I don't understand why you're suddenly talking about making friends. I wasn't trying to make a bloody friend!

That doesn't make any sense. Some people want to talk about the religion(which Im assuming is Islam) and others want to add race to it, he was referring to culture and not race... So just FORGET about it, right? and lets not talk about it at all? And how is it very much the case in the west today? Islamaphobia=Having a negative opinion of Islam?

Of course it does. It's simply a fact that Muslims today are portrayed as Arab terrorists with turbans. People have been targeted simply because they "looked like" Muslims, e.g. Sikhs after 9/11.

Revenant was an admirer of people such as Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens who long ago were rooted out as Islamophobes. Thus I think it's perfectly clear that he was not just a guy "criticizing Islam", but that he had an irrational fear of Islam. He supported the EDL's view on Islam which we all know is paranoid and delusional. As I pointed out earlier, Islam is not taking over. Sharia law is not taking over. To make that argument in the UK is to demonize Muslims.

If we are talking about Islam then what they have said is true, maybe you should study Islam, its pretty sick.

If they agree with bloody Tommy Robinson they're not right, they're fucking shitbags, just like him.

Well how do you whats streets are safe and for who?

Wow, fuck you so much for downplaying the threat the EDL poses to immigrants. I don't live in the UK, but earlier in the thread a poster pointed out how the EDL attacked a Kurdish shop. Don't you understand that if you leave these groups alone they get the impression they rule the streets and will just attack more immigrants? Again if you're a white guy it's very easy for you to write them off (btw if they find out you're a communist they'll beat you as well).

Although this is an area I am not very well aware of. Nakidana, are you worried about getting beaten up on the streets?

No, I'm not too worried, thank god! But maybe I should be, Nazi fucks have been mobilizing in my area since the summer of 2013 with filthy nazi stickers all over the place. Just in January three of them jumped a guy and punched his face in. Fortunately since then a strong anti-racist movement has been put together in the area, and I hope we'll be rid of the shitbags soon enough.

If only I could figure out who the hell is putting filthy anti-immigration pamphlets in our mailboxes.