Your Vagina Isn't Just Too Big, Too Floppy, and Too Hairy—It's Also Too Brown

[Conscript]

Mental. Arab women are beautiful, why'd they wanna look more European?

lol'd hard

[synthesis]

I recently read an article which aggregated perceptions of the physical attributes of "the ideal woman" by women and perceptions of "the ideal woman" by men - I believe it was via choosing the most enviable features of various celebrities' anatomy. It also did the same for "the ideal man" as perceived by men and women.

Here's what they found:

This is contrasted with the converse: men's ideas about "the ideal man," physically speaking, and women's ideas about "the ideal man," physically speaking, are basically the same:

I think this speaks to a major disconnect between male and female perspectives, based on their life experiences, of female beauty. Men grow up with onanistic Playboy fantasies whereas women grow up with "10 Ways to Achieve a Totally Flat Belly." Neither gender is regularly inundated with the information that the other gender receives regarding the societal "ideal woman." Many times in my life, I have seen total confusion from males about certain body image issues many women have. The thought is, "Where would they ever get the idea that men would care about that?" Of course, tying self-esteem to male opinion is the major problem, but on a microsocial level I think it has a lot to do with this disconnect of information receipt.

edit: Wow, okay, the survey was done by a lingerie company. Super scientific. But I think the point still stands.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Whatever the case, I don't think the social standard of female beauty can be reduced to what men desire, and I don't think women's desire to conform to the standard can be reduced to a desire to attract sexual partners. Homosexuals of both genders often conform to norms of beauty, as do asexuals and others who are not actively pursuing sexual contact. Moreover, men and women are often just as harsh to others of their own gender and sex. That of course doesn't mean that norms of beauty aren't based on or at least influenced by various patriarchal notions.

I'm rarely conscerned because I will fuck just about any of her three main orifices as long as I am sufficietly attracted to her but as far as eating it goes it won't happen unless it looks the way I want.

How is it being sexism? I'm not saying any woman should conform or care about my preferences. I wouldn't complain if she didn't want to polish my man-stick for whatever reason.

I think this bleching stuff is bullshit too btw.

I was looking for a "Bro" meme for this cat but none of them quite fit.

I think we can be open about our sexuality without descending into the kind of language that might make some uncomfortable.

[Rosa Partizan]

Whatever the case, I don't think the social standard of female beauty can be reduced to what men desire, and I don't think women's desire to conform to the standard can be reduced to a desire to attract sexual partners. Homosexuals of both genders often conform to norms of beauty, as do asexuals and others who are not actively pursuing sexual contact. Moreover, men and women are often just as harsh to others of their own gender and sex. That of course doesn't mean that norms of beauty aren't based on or at least influenced by various patriarchal notions.

Some (completely subjective) observations of mine would back that (not only my observations, but also those of female friends). When going out, women among themselves seem to compare and rate each other much harsher than men would do. The vast majority of guys is more like "she's somewhat attractive? Ok, let's go!" while women tend to pay attention to details guys would never notice. I'd leave open WHY many women are like that, cause indeed, this could have to do with outdoing the competition to get the best guy.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I'm rarely conscerned because I will fuck just about any of her three main orifices as long as I am sufficietly attracted to her but as far as eating it goes it won't happen unless it looks the way I want.

let's be honest though, nobody who has either experience with other people in terms of sex, nor respect for their lovers, would ever talk like this.

I'm guessing your mouth has never gotten near a woman's sexual organs not because you refuse, but because no woman would want a mouth that can utter such disgusting words near them.

[synthesis]

Whatever the case, I don't think the social standard of female beauty can be reduced to what men desire, and I don't think women's desire to conform to the standard can be reduced to a desire to attract sexual partners. Homosexuals of both genders often conform to norms of beauty, as do asexuals and others who are not actively pursuing sexual contact.

Was this in response to my post?

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

let's be honest though, nobody who has either experience with other people in terms of sex, nor respect for their lovers, would ever talk like this.

I'm guessing your mouth has never gotten near a woman's sexual organs not because you refuse, but because no woman would want a mouth that can utter such disgusting words near them.

I honestly think the vast majority of internet tough-guy misogynists who talk about sex like that have never so much as seen a bare breast that wasn't their mother's. It all reeks of weird desperation.

Misogynists with an actual sex life tend to be a bit more subtle and sleazy.

[Rosa Partizan]

I honestly think the vast majority of internet tough-guy misogynists who talk about sex like that have never so much as seen a bare breast that wasn't their mother's. It all reeks of weird desperation.

Misogynists with an actual sex life tend to be a bit more subtle and sleazy.

so much this.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Some (completely subjective) observations of mine would back that (not only my observations, but also those of female friends). When going out, women among themselves seem to compare and rate each other much harsher than men would do. The vast majority of guys is more like "she's somewhat attractive? Ok, let's go!" while women tend to pay attention to details guys would never notice. I'd leave open WHY many women are like that, cause indeed, this could have to do with outdoing the competition to get the best guy.

It is interesting being a man with a woman, and hearing the woman complaining about features of herself which you weren't aware of and generally find her to be beautiful still.

Nonetheless, some men (in my everyday experience, a seeming disproportionate number of alpha male types but also a number of incredibly sexually unsatisfied men too, and some somewhere in between) seem to flaunt their one-dimensional physical desire and superficial judgment of women.

Was this in response to my post?

Not specifically ... although I did find your study sponsored by underwear companies to be amusing.

[synthesis]

Not specifically ... although I did find your study sponsored by underwear companies to be amusing.

Word, I just misinterpreted the phrase "Whatever the case..." And it wasn't sponsored by lingerie companies, as far as I know, it was actually done by a lingerie company, which, in my defense, I don't believe was mentioned in the piece I originally read.

[4thInter]

Why in wide wide lands of Lenin is this a thread.-.

[Noa Rodman]

As some of you know I am a transwoman and during my junior year my depression came back really bad when my ex cheated on me with a couple guys, and depression tends to trigger my gender dysphoria. And as some of you might know many transpeople experience phantom limb syndrome. So one day when it was really bad I was able to used the sensation of where the vagina ought to be to have a female orgasm. It was wooonnnddeeerrrffffuulll. Seriously I envy you cis-woman, lady parts are awesome! Maybe if you are all mature enough I will share some more things. I imagine considering the maturity level of revleft there is about a 1/4th chance this won't derail but hopefully this leads to a fruitful discussion that goes beyond us simply agreeing with eachother about how reactionary this product is and can allow for an actual educational discussion.

Wilhelm Reich had a whole theory of orgasm energy as is well known, but relevant here is an example he gave of a male patient who had difficulty with orgasm and the reason Reich says was because the patient associated the overwhelming/having to let go feeling with orgasm as feminine. I would just say that like the cerebral palsy scene in Wolf of Wall Street shows, it's not a totally wrong idea to see orgasm as a moment of weakness (certainly in animal kingdom I imagine that would be ideal moment to attack your prey):

+ YouTube Video

Besides this stereotype image of what a man should be (always in control), also anatomically the difference between men-women in orgasm could be reduced to at most a matter of degree (ie prostate and Skene's gland are equivalent).

Also, a movie reference to Videodrome by David Cronenberg which deals specifically and graphically with 'male vagina' (this scene is very similar to how in the Matrix agent Smith puts his hand into Neo): http://www.anyclip.com/movies/videod...pen-up/#!cast/

The videodrome system can control James Woods through his vagina, but in the end Woods learns to control his vagina and turn it against the system.

[Noa Rodman]

I was able to use the sensation of where the vagina ought to be to have a female orgasm. It was wooonnnddeeerrrffffuulll. Seriously I envy you cis-woman, lady parts are awesome! Maybe if you are all mature enough I will share some more things.

If you feel this thread is worth saving, it would be interesting if you could say more than what usual sex advice books say, which is always disappointingly little.

Eg The Multi-Orgasmic Man: Sexual Secrets Every Man Should Know is allegedly just some expansion on the methods of Tao.

I think there's also a political issue here. Thalheimer discussed the teaching of Laozi/Lao-tse in this way:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/thal.../diamat/14.htm

The nucleus of his philosophy in its social and political aspect is the concept of Wu-wei, of "inaction." This concept of inaction, of letting things go their own way with the least possible interference, is equivalent to the concept that the state should interfere as little as possible in the affairs of the peasant masses, in the self-government of the tribal villages. Lao-tse says that that government is best of which the people are least aware. He is against urban and courtly culture; he is for a simple, primitive life and against knowledge and erudition, which under the existing conditions was impossible without the exploitation of the people. ...

Lao-tse is made most clear when compared with a modern thinker, Leo Tolstoy, whose doctrine resembles his in its essential features. The doctrine of Tolstoy, as you know, likewise opposes the use of force. It is inspired by hate and enmity against the state and the great feudal landowner. Leo Tolstoy was a penitent nobleman. Himself a landowner, he sided with the peasantry against the landowners. As Lenin has shown, Leo Tolstoy reflects the peasants' resistance against feudalism and against the feudal state. The village, according to Tolstoy, should govern itself. The state should not interfere. Tolstoy's resistance, however, was of the passive sort; he rejected conflict, the use of force. This is consistent with the fact that at this time the peasant revolution was not yet joined with the revolution of the urban proletariat and that Tolstoy himself had no understanding of the proletarian revolution. But the position of the peasant class is such that it alone can never combat the centralized power of the state, because rustic life is not congenial to close-knit organization. The peasantry, although it comprises many millions, is divided, split into countless small units. Here one peasant family, there another; here one village, there another, without organized alliance.
...
Through comparison with Tolstoy the historical role of Lao-tse will become apparent. Lao-tse embodies the passive protest, the passive resistance of the peasant village against the feudal state and the feudal landlords. The state should keep its hands off the village. The village should govern itself and supervise its own farming. This attitude of Lao-tse does not correspond to a revolutionary position; it corresponds to a position of passive resistance, of non-co-operation, withdrawal, separation from the state.

Also, there is doubt that female G-spot exists in all women (or even as such). Apparently the criticism is that it could be some mystic construction. This could be discussed here in all maturity. After all, some feminists argue as political position that focus should be only on clitorial orgasm.

[Luís Henrique]

the perfect vagina would be something that's not a vagina at all

Of course; the perfect vagina would be a penis. Is that news?

Luís Henrique