alien non-carbon based life forms

[ComradeRed]

i need links to every type of non-carbon based life forms, asap. thanks comrades.

[Iron Star]

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/...iliconlife.html
http://www.cmste.uncc.edu/papers/Can%20Sil...ife%20Exist.doc

Here's something else I found on carbon based life existing in an ammonia system.

http://www.angelfire.com/on2/daviddarling/...ammonialife.htm

[ComradeRed]

k, so there's silicon and ammonia based liufe thus theorized, yet what of the hydrogen based life forms? iron? mangenese? or is this it?

[Iron Star]

I think that's pretty much it. Though, I have heard of the possibility of phosporous based life before.

[ComradeRed]

im no chemistry expert, but what exactly is phosphate?

[Looter]

Iron based life forms are planets, Hydrogen based life forms are Stars and gas giants.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by Looter@Jan 22 2004, 01:19 PM
Iron based life forms are planets, Hydrogen based life forms are Stars and gas giants.

Can you explain this? It doesn't fit the definition of life I know. How can there be hydrogen based life? It would have to be a compound, or under emence pressure somehow...there must be more explainations here and less conjecture. I could say that there could be copper based life forms, what makes it possible?

[Looter]

The Earth and the Sun are real while all these other alien life forms are pure imagination. Are they alive? I think they are because they have a magnetic field. You dont have a real definition of life, because you only have a single case and if you think about it, none of the life forms you know of could exist without the Earth. Do you understand how the Earth or Sun work? Of course not, so what reason do you have to believe they are not alive. You dont understand them, well if you were to discover a completely new life form you wouldn't expect to be able to understand it. The Sun and the Earth are alive, once you realize that you dont need any of you make believe. Why not discover the real mysteries of the Universe rather than making up youir own, that is what science is all about.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by Looter@Jan 22 2004, 05:50 PM
You dont have a real definition of life, because you only have a single case and if you think about it, none of the life forms you know of could exist without the Earth. Do you understand how the Earth or Sun work? Of course not, so what reason do you have to believe they are not alive. You dont understand them, well if you were to discover a completely new life form you wouldn't expect to be able to understand it. The Sun and the Earth are alive, once you realize that you dont need any of you make believe. Why not discover the real mysteries of the Universe rather than making up youir own, that is what science is all about.

I have a definition of life...it is the scientific definition and is very common I believe, explian your definition. I have a limited understanding of how the Earth and Sun work, no one can really fully understand them now.

"Why not discover the real mysteries of the Universe rather than making up youir own, that is what science is all about."

Why not explain this statement? Why did you make it?

[Looter]

Man created God in his own image.
You say you have a definition of life, but if it's the conventional definition it's just a bunch of parameters based on a single case that of Earth. according to your definition viruses arent alive because they need a host cell, well I could say that none of your life forms are really alive because they need a host planet, the real source of life is the Earth, I'm not saying that but I could. You say the Planets and the Stars dont fit you definition of life, where is the contradiction? If the Stars and Planets were alive, how would they be different than they are now? As far as I am concerned DNA is the key to terrestrial life, what is needed for life is the ability to store and replicate information, intelligence and life are in fact related, and one cant build life without some form of intelligence. The Earth is made of Iron Nickel and Cobalt, by some amazing coincidence the three ferromagnetic elements, Where did the Earth's magnetic field come from, how does it maintain it, how does it change. Compared to the Earth the Sun's magnetic field is much more complex, how does the Sun make it's Corona so hot. In fact the only time you can see the real Sun is during an eclipse, yet Earthlings are so superstitious that they are afraid to look at the Sun in it's true glory, that is the real World. A few decades ago they hadn't yet discovered black holes, they weren't even sure if they existed, they had discovered Quasars but they realize they were black holes. To me all your speculation about imaginary life on imaginary planets is not science, you invent a lot of nonsense and you look out in the real world and discover it isn't there, there are no little green men, there are no planets like earth,they aren't sending us messages, there is no Yahwah. The problem is that you are ignoring what is there because it is beyond your comprehension and instead you go on fantasizing. This is Bourgeoise consciousness, our preconcieved notions are more important than reality and if reality contradicts your fantasies you ignore reality and build even bigger fantasies. It's like basing your foreign policy on the Bible. We all know countries that act like that, but marxists do just the opposite we base our ideas on reality, the stars and the planets are real, so why no to understand them and not worry at all about stuff thats only in our heads. My perspective is simply that there is more to Heaven and Earth than are dreampt of in your philosophy. You have to try thinking outside of the box, but instead you appear to me to be looking for the box, and it isnt out there.

[MysticArcher]

okay, I don't know about this whole philosophy thing everyone's got off topic into, but I took two years of chem in high school, got a 5 (the highest possible) score on my AP test and am now taking the third quarter of general chem at college

so I can pretty much answer this: life, at least the life we could even concieve of existing, has to be based on an element that is able to make 4 covalent bonds, metals cannot make covalent bonds, so while you could have a life form that incorporates a large amount of iron (perhaps in an exoskeleton or cell walls) it couldn't be based on iron

that means the only choices are pretty much carbon and silicon

comradered, phosphate is an ion, with a -3 charge of one phosphorous and four oxygen atoms bonded together

"Are they alive? I think they are because they have a magnetic field." Looter
a magnet has a magnetic field too, is it alive, not by most definitions

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by Looter@Jan 24 2004, 03:11 PM
...To me all your speculation about imaginary life on imaginary planets is not science, you invent a lot of nonsense and you look out in the real world and discover it isn't there, there are no little green men, there are no planets like earth,they aren't sending us messages, there is no Yahwah. The problem is that you are ignoring what is there because it is beyond your comprehension and instead you go on fantasizing. This is Bourgeoise consciousness, our preconcieved notions are more important than reality and if reality contradicts your fantasies you ignore reality and build even bigger fantasies. It's like basing your foreign policy on the Bible. We all know countries that act like that, but marxists do just the opposite we base our ideas on reality, the stars and the planets are real, so why no to understand them and not worry at all about stuff thats only in our heads. My perspective is simply that there is more to Heaven and Earth than are dreampt of in your philosophy. You have to try thinking outside of the box, but instead you appear to me to be looking for the box, and it isnt out there.

Who the hell are you talking to? Where are you getting this shit? I am a Marxist! Stop using general insults, it's pathetic and accomplishes nothing. Use some logic and stop wasting our time.

Thanks MysticArcher for using a logical argument and not going into...something else. I agree with you, I didn't know some of that info but I had basically the same conclusion.

[kadamangudy]

"5 on the AP test... Third quarter of General chem"

my, arent we tooting our horn

[ComradeRed]

well, i once got a 165 on a SAT test, so i think im truly the most qualified to say that the bourgeoisie and.... spam .... spam .... sapm .... smap.... im spam so much i dont need to spel ... spam.... GOD! OK, MA thanks for answering the question instead of certain spammers *glare at looter*.

[MysticArcher]

"my, arent we tooting our horn"

yes, indeed I am


" well, i once got a 165 on a SAT test" I don't think that's what you mean, I got 1300 on mine, soeither you mean a different number or a different test

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by kadamangudy@Jan 27 2004, 02:50 AM
"5 on the AP test... Third quarter of General chem"

my, arent we tooting our horn

Better than insulting people for dissagreeing with you. Still, I don't really care about tests...

[Looter]

As far as I'm concerned I'm the only one who's thinking here, the rest of you full of shit, and you cant even begin to comprehend what Im talking about. Use your brains for a change, we all know where thinking with your anus leads, to the trenches. Just because your mind is too small to grasp something doesn't make it wrong, try expanding your mind, where are my insults, where is your thought. What do you fools gain by being ignorant? Remember Columbia, thats what happens when the ideas that fit through the smallest of mind rule. I dont have to invent the real world, why not try learning from it for a change, rather than listening to the sound of your own voice telling you how great you are, thats not science, thats bullshit, it may be the American way, but thats why they are such useless idiots dieing for thier master, because they are too dumb to live. Learning to use your brain might come in handy, you wont have wallow in self pity and wonder why everything you do ends up exploding in your face.

[ComradeRed]

Looter, yeah, WE cant comprehend YOU, sure...
hey, mystic archer or someone who KNOWS about SCIENCE, can there be molocules that can have life based on them.
MA, i was talking about looter, not u.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by Looter@Jan 27 2004, 11:33 AM
As far as I'm concerned I'm the only one who's thinking here, the rest of you full of shit, and you cant even begin to comprehend what Im talking about. Use your brains for a change, we all know where thinking with your anus leads, to the trenches. Just because your mind is too small to grasp something doesn't make it wrong, try expanding your mind, where are my insults, where is your thought. What do you fools gain by being ignorant? Remember Columbia, thats what happens when the ideas that fit through the smallest of mind rule. I dont have to invent the real world, why not try learning from it for a change, rather than listening to the sound of your own voice telling you how great you are, thats not science, thats bullshit, it may be the American way, but thats why they are such useless idiots dieing for thier master, because they are too dumb to live. Learning to use your brain might come in handy, you wont have wallow in self pity and wonder why everything you do ends up exploding in your face.

Looter,
You are a pathetic reactionary. Why are you here? To express your supremacy? You are the only shithead here, as no one is supporting your crusade. You are no better that any of us, get over it and try being a leftist maybe. I don't think you can even begin to comprehend what your talking about, at least you can't explain it rationaly. You have no grasp on science. If you did, you would be able to make your points logicaly. Your political giberish doesn't fit in here either. Their is no relation between lifeforms in space and the American way. I tried to communicate rationaly to you but it seems that won't work. Go badger some capitalists with your reactionary stupidity; why don't you?

[monkeydust]

Originally posted by Looter@Jan 22 2004, 05:50 PM

The Earth and the Sun are real while all these other alien life forms are pure imagination. Are they alive? I think they are because they have a magnetic field

A magnet has a magnetic field. Are magnets alive as well

You dont have a real definition of life, because you only have a single case and if you think about it, none of the life forms you know of could exist without the Earth.

If there was a planet very similar to Earth elsewhere, lifeforms similar to us certainly could exist. Besides, these guys weren't talking about lifeforms we know.

Do you understand how the Earth or Sun work? Of course not, so what reason do you have to believe they are not alive

Actually we do know much of how the Earth and Sun work. They are no more alive than a Nuclear bomb is.

You dont understand them, well if you were to discover a completely new life form you wouldn't expect to be able to understand it.

People do understand them.

The Sun and the Earth are alive, once you realize that you dont need any of you make believe. Why not discover the real mysteries of the Universe rather than making up youir own, that is what science is all about.

How ironic is this. So you're saying science is about making up theories with no evidence, whatsoever other than the fact that you don't know otherwise and then pompously asserting how you're right and everyone else is wrong. That's not science, your premise is as illogical as any assertion by Ancient people about 'sun gods'.

Yes the sun and the Earth do function amazingly well, so much so that you may consider it too convinient to be a series of reactions. However you are looking at things the wrong way round. It seems to me you're taking the view that it's amazing it must be alive, whereas in actual fact things are the other way round. If it wasn't such an amazing coincidence you wouldn't be here to make these assumptions.