two members of golden dawn shot dead

[synthesis]

I'd like to kill this little conspiracy theory before it hatches and say, incidentally, 9x19mm is the most popular pistol round in the world. I also fail to see how killing low-ranking members of a political organization is necessarily apolitical.

That's what I was thinking. Finding 9mm rounds anywhere isn't really evidence of anything. And yeah, it's just as political as the murder of the rapper - symbolic more than utilitarian. "Look what we can do and aren't afraid of getting caught for."

Rooting on violence from the safety of your computer is pretty goddamn juvenile. No revolutionary should celebrate the death of a human being. I'm not going to lose sleep over the death of some fascists, but it's wrong to celebrate it, too. Just like when the Navy took out bin Laden and people all across the country had parties over it. That was disgusting.

With all that said, this was not revolutionary violence. This was low-level, retaliatory thuggery. You don't win the people over with shit like this. It's not smart, it's not effective, it's not revolutionary. It's cut from the same stupid, reactionary cloth that was the basis of the Weather Underground's violence.

yawn

[Sasha]

no tears lost but neither an productive revolutionary act.

and while very much in the style of the "revolutionary struggle" group until we see an communique taking credit we shouldn't assume too much, dont forget that the GD is also an criminal enterprise deep into extortion and the drug, weapon and women trade. it could be just inter criminal gang warfare.

and last but not least, while i hate the "false flag" screamers as much as everyone else the strategy of tension is very much alive in greece, if this turns out to be claimed by RS or a similair group that doesnt mean that the secret police isnt deeply involved. this is the shit they love to steer armed groups they have their fingers in towards, "brutal war between the extremists" makes the law and order of the state looks good.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Good riddance.

Sympathy stops when people murder and terrorize human beings because of their looks and where they come from.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Yeah they don't deserve anything other than a shower of lead. That's what all fascists deserve, they're the enemies of all of humanity

That doesn't mean they should be dehumanized, I see them as human beings who may or may not have come to their views through various experiences, but still when they serve in their capacities as fascists they deserve whatever they get as far as I'm concerned. Although I guess it's nothing to celebrate...

[ВАЛТЕР]

Good! Fuck them and everything they love. I hope for more such actions.

[Tim Cornelis]

All I can say is I wouldn't be capable of doing such a thing. In the past when I did some sort of 'pranks' in high school, I saw a teacher's eyes before we threw water balloons into his class room -- kind of a shocked gaze. It didn't make me feel bad but if them had been bullets instead water balloons I could totally imagine such a look being branded into my memory haunting me forever. Killing random Golden Dawn members would constantly make me think that, maybe, in 20 years the person killed would have been a regular father and teacher voting PASOK or whatever, and now I snubbed out his chance to redeem himself. It would haunt me.

As's been said, a death is a tragedy. Tragic that his life's path lead him there. That doesn't mean no one ever deserves death, but it's still tragic.

The scenario of civil war would be different though. Then is no longer a question of redemption but of victory.

[Thirsty Crow]

Good riddance.

Sympathy stops when people murder and terrorize human beings because of their looks and where they come from.

How about some political perspective?

This action comes in the context of the Greek prime minister openly calling and announcing "intolerance" towards both "extremist" camps in Greek society, the other one being "anti-EU and anti-NATO". Now, you can take a wild guess just how the state might respond to this murder, and what kind of actions can be expected.

Anyone saying "I hope for more such actions" is an imbecile living in the past, pretending that 1) there is a mass of revolutionary workers and that 2) they, and communist militants, are equipped for a struggle that can take on the form of armed clash (both of which implies an open revolutionary situation). In short, you're all a bunch of deluded idiots.

and while very much in the style of the "revolutionary struggle" group until we see an communique taking credit we shouldn't assume too much, dont forget that the GD is also an criminal enterprise deep into extortion and the drug, weapon and women trade. it could be just inter criminal gang warfare.

and last but not least, while i hate the "false flag" screamers as much as everyone else the strategy of tension is very much alive in greece, if this turns out to be claimed by RS or a similair group that doesnt mean that the secret police isnt deeply involved. this is the shit they love to steer armed groups they have their fingers in towards, "brutal war between the extremists" makes the law and order of the state looks good.

All very good points. And no, it would not surprise me in the least if it turned out that this was a false flag op.

[Comrade Jacob]

How sad...

[Hrafn]

There is no tragedy in this, and to the day I day I'll claim that anyone who says otherwise is a bleeding-heart liberal.

[TheSocialistMetalhead]

Unsettling news and not necessarily good news (as far as someone dying can be good). Now let me put forward my own little conspiracy theory.
It goes like this: The GD party leadership decided they weren't doing good enough in the polls after the murder of the rapper by one of their members. They hired a couple of crooks to murder some low-ranking members of the party thereby causing a lot more people to sympathize with them and convincing even more voters the "far left" is not what they should support because they're the most obvious suspects.
At any rate, the victims' families have my sympathy.

[Red_Banner]

Love it.

Um, have you read Engels' "On Authority"?

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx.../authority.htm

[Lily Briscoe]

bleeding-heart liberal.

Bleeding-heart liberals* > ridiculous macho posturing and laughing over street executions (i.e. a huge proportion of the responses in this thread)

*also, I think when people in this thread talk about "liberals", it isn't meant as a political description, it's just a politically-correct way of calling someone a pussy.

[synthesis]

*also, I think when people in this thread talk about "liberals", it isn't meant as a political description, it's just a politically-correct way of calling someone a pussy.

I would argue instead that it is being used to describe people who describe themselves as revolutionary but oppose violence as a symptom of revolution for reasons rooted in bourgeois moralism rather than working class politics.

Bleeding-heart liberals* > ridiculous macho posturing and laughing over street executions (i.e. a huge proportion of the responses in this thread)

[Art Vandelay]

Oh man I'm late to the party, but to be honest, I don't care if this was productive or not from a class struggle perspective, I'm just happy there are two less wanna be nazi scumbags in this world. No platform to fascists, heh, more like no fascist left unfilled with lead.

[LiamChe]

I like the article's obligatory use of the word "terrorists," whenever GD murders a few immigrants, that's not what they're usually called. Anyways this is good news, hopefully the Greek people start to take more of these measures to get rid of their fascist problem

[Remus Bleys]

I like the article's obligatory use of the word "terrorists,"

“We stand for organized terror - this should be frankly admitted." Felix Dzerzhinksy

Any leftist would do well to be called a terrorist by the Bourgeoisie State.

[Hrafn]

Bleeding-heart liberals* > ridiculous macho posturing and laughing over street executions (i.e. a huge proportion of the responses in this thread)

*also, I think when people in this thread talk about "liberals", it isn't meant as a political description, it's just a politically-correct way of calling someone a pussy.

So I guess liberal humanism is to be left uncritiqued.

[Os Cangaceiros]

The possibility that two Golden Dawn members shot dead outside party offices in northern Athens on Friday were killed by members urban guerrillas is being treated by the police as the most likely explanation for the attack.

The raid left two men, 22-year-old Manolis Kapelonis and 26-year-old Giorgos Fountoulis, dead and a third, 29-year-old Alexandros Gerontas, fighting for his life. Gerontas was hit by a bullet and underwent a splenectomy on Friday night. He was then transferred to an intensive-care unit, where his condition was described as critical.

The three men were shot outside Golden Dawn’s offices in Neo Iraklio. Police said that two men wearing crash helmets were involved in the attack, although it is possible that there were accomplices at the scene. The two men got off a motorbike they parked across the street from the neo-Nazi party’s offices, walked up to the victims and one of the pair opened fire. Twelve bullet casings were recovered from the scene. It is believed that the assailants used a Zastava semi-automatic revolver.

Kapelonis and Fountoulis were struck in the chest and head, suggesting that the gunman intended to kill. Police sources said that the only terrorist group that had committed these kinds of murders in Greece recently was the Sect of Revolutionaries, which claimed responsibility for killing policeman Nektarios Savvas in June 2009 and journalist Sokratis Giolias in July 2010.

The group has not made an appearance since then but officers note that a proclamation signed by the imprisoned members of another urban guerrilla group, Conspiracy of the Cells of Fire, last month called for the formation of a “united front” with other terrorist organizations, including the Sect of Revolutionaries.

Police are also investigating if the shooting could be connected to Nikos Maziotis, a member of another group, Revolutionary Struggle, who is currently on the run from authorities. Last month, police linked Maziotis to an armed bank robbery. The fugitive issued a statement via the Indymedia website denying he was involved.

Officers recovered a motorcycle some 2 kilometers from the shooting and are conducting tests to find out if it was the one used by the attackers. Golden Dawn also said it had provided authorities with a copy of footage from its CCTV cameras, which allegedly captured the attack.

Golden Dawn MP Eleni Zaroulia, the wife of leader Nikos Michaloliakos who was remanded in custody last month on suspicion of heading a criminal organization, blamed Public Order Minister Nikos Dendias for the murders. Zaroulia and two more of the extremist party’s lawmakers handed in their gun licenses and weapons at Pefki police precinct in northern Athens. They said they received a request a few days earlier from the Public Order Ministry to do so.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w...11/2013_525979

welp no surprises there

[Os Cangaceiros]

I seem to remember the Sect of Revolutionaries murder being almost certainly a false flag. IIRC that was the only act the supposed group committed, and it was the murder of a journalist who was known for exposing organized crime.

[Lily Briscoe]

So I guess liberal humanism is to be left uncritiqued.

I would argue instead that it is being used to describe people who describe themselves as revolutionary but oppose violence as a symptom of revolution for reasons rooted in bourgeois moralism rather than working class politics.

As bizarre as some of the politics on this website can be, I can't imagine anyone actually believes there is a revolution underway in Greece right now. So, since there is quite obviously no revolution to speak of, I doubt anyone here sees this as "violence as a symptom of revolution". I tend to agree with adipocere's comment on the first page that this is more akin to gang violence (that the gangs in question have a flimsy political veneer seems very much beside the point). And I think gross macho behavior/hardman posturing is endemic to this sort of thing and to people who support it, and berating people as "liberals" for failing to see the humor in street executions seems like a pretty clear example of that. (I know, I know: yawn.jpg -- how terribly boring to not derive pleasure from reading about people being killed)

And while maybe one or two of the comments in this thread could arguably be described as 'bourgeois moralism' or 'liberal humanism' (e.g. 'each and every death is a tragedy'), it seems fairly politically innocuous, particularly in comparison to sexually-frustrated weirdos vicariously sating their bloodlust through far-away violence.