Do you vote?

[Lily Briscoe]

Petit bourgeois crackers better not start resisting that $15/hr min wage...

There won't be any need. Workers are going to get 15 bucks an hour because somebody gets elected to the city council? Haha. That's a good one...

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

I have done, I may again.
If a party or candidate is standing that I agree with then I'll have a punt, otherwise a lil 'pissing in the wind' protest on a spoiled ballot.

[Thirsty Crow]

Yeah, mostly I do.

But heeey isn't it then hypocritical to advocate abstentionism? Not in the least.

[BOZG]

I have generally been lucky enough to have someone to vote for, even if they were a hopeless case. I will have the bizarre experience of being able to vote for my wife next year.

[Quail]

I don't vote for a couple of reasons. First, I don't see much point in voting for the lesser of evils, and secondly, I wouldn't want to advocate voting because I see it as counterproductive to convincing people that they can and should take control over their own lives. It contradicts the idea of the working class organising themselves. Regardless of who wins the election, we're going to get fucked over so it makes more sense to me to put energy elsewhere instead of participating in the election.

[Igor]

ive voted on local elections but not national, especially not presidential or EU

on local elections i feel like i might even marginally improve my quality of life: naturally i don't view this as something that will bring any kind of major social change but it's such a small trouble that i do it anyways, especially because there are usually people i know irl running

e: to give an example of life quality improvement: expansion of public transit network in my city and how much it should cost for passengers is one of the biggest issues atm here. cheaper public transport and a reliable tram system would make my life easier. that's why i vote for people who actively campaign for these issues in my city, even if they're in no manner revolutionary leftists. i don't feel like this is any less constructive than just staying home

[The Feral Underclass]

Voting is reactionary.

[Devrim]

I don't vote for a couple of reasons.

At least there is one real anarchist on here. It is quite refreshing when compared with statements like the following ones from other anarchists on here:

I in generally vote and vote for an actual party, but thanks to the dutch electoral system we have better options than you do, even if the most left parties on the ballot made it so bad that I can't vote for the party anymore there are always individual candidates I know personally well enough to support (how can you not vote for your own mom for example).

I didn't vote in the general election, will vote in the municipal election (Socialist Party of course). The more SP-delegates in legislative bodies, the more able grassroots organising activism is to put pressure on municipal councils and push for reforms. It's purely strategic.

It is one of the things with some anarchists that they are completely devoid of any political principle from the tragedy of anarchists joining the government in Spain to the farce of Class War standing candidates in the modern UK.

Personally I think it comes from a lack of understanding about the nature of capitalism, and social democracy.

Psycho expresses this confusion well here:

I don't vote because I think reformism helps me, but for the people for who the election outcome can mean the difference between just being poor or actually starving, for who it can mean staying or getting deported, etc.

The social democratic parties today are not 'reformist' in the sense of the way the word was used in the late 19th and early 20th century. Then it referred to people who thought socialism could be implimented through peaceful parliamentary means. Today, the social democratic parties manage the state and capital, and there is no pretence of socialism whatsoever. Parties of whatever shade are obliged to manage the system, and people starve, and get deported under both right-wing and social democratic governments.

Even Quail, who at least has principals, falls into the same error:

First, I don't see much point in voting for the lesser of evils, and secondly, I wouldn't want to advocate voting because I see it as counterproductive to convincing people that they can and should take control over their own lives.

What is the lesser evil about the UK Labour Party? I don't need to lecture people from the UK about the record of the Labour Party. When in office it, like the Tory party, manages the economy, and protects the 'national interest', both of which are opposed to the working class interest.

Sometimes I just cross everything out or write "no suitable candidate" across the paper, occasionally I'll have a bit more fun.

You have a very different idea of fun than I do.

Devrim

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

By fun, I mean I occasionally write something silly or draw a little cartoon. I figure it might brighten up the day of the poor sods who have to count the votes

[Thirsty Crow]

I don't vote for a couple of reasons. First, I don't see much point in voting for the lesser of evils, and secondly, I wouldn't want to advocate voting because I see it as counterproductive to convincing people that they can and should take control over their own lives.

Voting and advocating voting are two separate actions.

[Rugged Collectivist]

No, never. I was eligible for the first time in 2012, and I considered voting for Roseanne because I thought it would be funny, but in the end I decided it wasn't worth the trouble.

[The Feral Underclass]

BOZG is reactionary.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'd vote for Russell Brand on the "profit is filth" platform.

[Quail]

What is the lesser evil about the UK Labour Party? I don't need to lecture people from the UK about the record of the Labour Party. When in office it, like the Tory party, manages the economy, and protects the 'national interest', both of which are opposed to the working class interest.

I don't think Labour are any better or else maybe I would vote. I was referring to the act of choosing between candidates. Choosing "which of these candidates says they will fuck me over the least" isn't a real choice.

Voting and advocating voting are two separate actions.

Right, perhaps I should have said I would advocate not voting. In which case, voting goes against my own arguments which isn't consistent.

[tachosomoza]

Yes, I vote. Too many people fought and died for my right to do so without having my house burned down, my car windows broken/tires flattened, or me having to take literacy tests (which I'd pass, but they're still obstructionist and not mandated by the constitution) or guess the number of bubbles on a bar of soap/jellybeans in a jar.

[Crabbensmasher]

Voting for me as a completely apolitical act, there is no political goal of anti-capitalism that can be achieved by it. Hence my votes are motivated by pure self interest and whimsy. Chris Christe seems like a good fellow to me, he handled the whole hurricane thing well, talks a good talk and isn't an ideologue and is willing to compromise. Plus the last guy we had was a corrupt sack of shit and since Christe came in the states looking up in the whole not having corrupt sack of shits running the government department. So why not? He's making the state a better place. Not like i really give much of a crap about the electoral circus more than that. Of course this is all based on requirement that I can be bothered to use my day of of work on election day to get off of my ass and vote, which sadly is unlikely because I can think of a billion more productive things to do.

I can understand this sentiment, and contemplated doing so in my first election, but ultimately decided against it.

I figure if you vote for somebody, you reaffirm this fantasy notion that people are actually content with their options. Yes, I think people are content with their options on an apolitical level, as you are, but they're confusing this for political opinions. Like, I'm not going to sit here and say everybody is a closet Marxist, as that would be a load of shit. On the other hand, however, I don't think people are voting for what they really want. They're voting out of self interest, because they know the candidate personally, they are young, they look good etc.

The main thing that reaffirms this is the elections. If 60% of people voted, that's considered a good outcome. People look at that and say "Wow, we really must be doing something right". What they don't understand is that, like you, people vote apolitically. They go for the 'least terrible' or the 'I speak for your very specific group of people' candidates.

That, however, is just as bad as not voting at all. When you do that, people will say "Wow, 40% of people didn't vote. They must be a bunch of lazy bastards".

So in my opinion, the only way to send a message is to either void your ballot, or vote for a protest party. It all comes down to whether you want to send a message or not. In my opinion, it's a great medium to show your discontent. It may not awaken people, but it does leave an impact. People start to think.

Like, what I'm trying to say, is voting may be apolitical to you, but people don't see it that way. You're sending a distorted message.

[Devrim]

I don't think Labour are any better or else maybe I would vote.

That is logical. I would probably ote too if I thought one party could improve conditions for the working class.

I was referring to the act of choosing between candidates. Choosing "which of these candidates says they will fuck me over the least" isn't a real choice.

Of course we know that equally you can't trust what they say anyway. I think that there are some anarchist though, see psycho in this thread, who think that there is a difference between the various parties. To me it seems that the left communist position on abstentionism is marked by the idea that all parties have to manage capitalism, and therefore have to attack the working class. The position of many anarchists, and I am not including yourself here, seems to be a moral one, which has a tendency to evaporate in certain circumstances, for example when a fascist stands a chance of winning an election, they run to vote against him.

Voting and advocating voting are two separate actions.

Yes, they are. I don't vote though because I don't see that there is any difference who wins. Obviously you do. If I thought there was a difference I would advocate voting.

Devrim

[Yuppie Grinder]

I've never been of age for a presidential election but I probably wouldn't.

[synthesis]

I don't understand people who say that if you don't vote it's because you're lazy. I've never voted on anything in my life, and honestly in 2008 it would have been a lot less effort to just vote for Obama than have to explain to people why I wasn't going to do it when they asked me, unless I was going to lie about it or something.

[Thirsty Crow]

Right, perhaps I should have said I would advocate not voting. In which case, voting goes against my own arguments which isn't consistent.

Only if your argument is that people should not vote because of positive developments for the working class arising from this very act of abstention. I don't think there are any signs pointing in that direction when it comes to relevant situation (e.g. small percentages of eligible citizenry actually voting). This is a far cry from a consistent revolutionary abstentionist position, at least in my view. I also don't think that it is the function of revolutionary organizations to tell people not to vote, but to disseminate clear ideas about the present configuration of forces and the character of the political process at play as part of the overall advocacy of class struggle.

Yes, they are. I don't vote though because I don't see that there is any difference who wins. Obviously you do. If I thought there was a difference I would advocate voting.

Don't you think this is all too simplistic?
The assumption that I see the difference is in fact not true for some of those instances, if by difference you actually mean prospects for a halt in the deterioration of the conditions for the working class. To be open, I don't see any political relevance in my personal act of this kind. So yeah, it's much more of a personal act and utterly depends on my precise location on the day of the election to be frank.