Vietnamese general Giap dies

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24403791

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-13561646

Obituary: General Vo Nguyen Giap

Well into his 90s Giap remained engaged in Vietnam's political affairs
His surname Vo translates as "force" and his first name Giap means "strong armour", fitting perhaps for a man who helped bring about the defeat of major military powers.
A dedicated communist, Vo Nguyen Giap never received formal military training but made his reputation as a talented strategist who engineered victories against forces which were, technically, far better equipped.
Born in 1911 in Quang Binh Province in central Vietnam, then part of French Indochina, he was the son of a rice grower and attended local schools before, at the age of 14, joining a clandestine nationalist movement.
While studying at Hanoi University, from where he graduated with a doctorate, he taught history at a private school in the city.
He had a special interest in the military tactics of Napoleon, with one student recalling that he could draw the French Emperor's various battle plans from memory.
By 1938 he was a member of Ho Chi Minh's Indochinese Communist party, eventually helping him found a new coalition, the Vietnam Doc Lap Dong Minh Hoa, commonly known as Viet Minh, dedicated to ending French colonial rule.
Giap organised armed groups and in 1944, returned to Indochina to wage guerrilla war against the occupying Japanese.
Defeating France Hanoi fell to Viet Minh forces on August 19th 1945 and Ho proclaimed the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, appointing Giap as his new interior minister.
Giap was acknowledged to be a brilliant military strategist
The French recognised the new republic but, were reluctant to give up a rich source of rice and rubber in the south of the country, imposing tariffs to control international trade.
Giap assembled tens of thousands of guerrillas in the Tonkinese Mountains and began a hit-and-run campaign against French military and commercial interests.
Giap emphasised the need to attack in several locations at once, forcing the French to disperse their numerically superior forces.
His tactics, subsequently published in his 1962 book, People's War, People's Army, would be used to devastating effect against the Americans 20 years later.
The climax came in the valley of Dien Bien Phu in 1954 after the French parachuted in 12,000 troops, planning to take on Giap's forces in a pitched battle.
Unknown to the French, Giap had acquired US-made heavy guns which he had set up in the hills surrounding the drop zone.
The French forces, trapped in the valley, suffered a bombardment that lasted more than two months and lost 4,000 men before they surrendered in May, a victory which signalled the end of French colonial rule in the region.
Tet Offensive A ceasefire was signed in 1954 which divided Vietnam into two with promises of a referendum among all Vietnamese to determine the country's future.
The Tet offensive was a massive psychological blow for the US
After the regime in the south reneged on the promise of a vote, a group of nationalists formed the National Liberation Front - or the Viet Cong as they were termed by American soldiers.
Fearful of the growth of communist influence in Vietnam the US committed aid and advisers to the south.
In 1965 the US landed troops in Vietnam and Giap committed divisions of North Vietnamese soldiers to back up the Viet Cong forces in the South.
He believed that the Americans had no stomach for a prolonged conflict in Vietnam. "To fight a protracted war is a big defeat for them,” he argued. "Their morale is lower than the grass."
Giap has long been credited with launching the hugely significant Tet offensive, but recent research suggests that he may in fact have been against this push - and he was visiting the Hungarian capital, Budapest, at the time of the campaign.
Coinciding with Tet, or the Lunar New Year in 1968, Viet Cong and North Vietnamese forces attacked more than 40 provincial capitals and went into Saigon itself even entering the US embassy.
They were eventually thrown back having lost more than 15,000 men but it was a massive psychological blow for the US, hardening opposition to the war back in America and contributing to the decision to withdraw.
Military legacy In 1975, two years after the final American combat troops had left Vietnam, communist forces took Saigon and proclaimed the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.
Giap retained his position as Minister of Defence and was appointed Deputy Prime Minister in 1976, retiring from government 6 years later.
He published several works of military strategy
He published a number of works on military strategy with at least one historian comparing him with leaders such as Wellington, Rommel and MacArthur.
The man known by his troops as "The Volcano" because of his ability to explode with rage did not receive universal approval.
The US commander in Vietnam, General Westmoreland deplored Giap's seeming cavalier attitude to large numbers of casualties among his own troops.
"Such a disregard for human life," said Westmoreland, "may make a formidable adversary but it does not make a military genius."
But well into his 90s he remained alert and engaged in Vietnam's current affairs and politics, meeting world leaders and speaking out about issues close to his heart.

He was a crafty military commander who consistently prevailed against difficult odds, in a day when 3rd world countries in Asia were finally gaining real independence from Europe. Apparently he also became a bit of a green after the war, criticizing massive bauxite mining plans. He's an interesting figure from a historical perspective, whatever is thought of the Vietnamese national struggle (or what it ended up becoming).

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Anywhere you can find his work "People's war, People's Army" for free

[MarxEngelsLeninStalinMao]

What were his relations with the Vietnamese government after Ho died? I know he was highly respected by the government, but I heard that he didn't like it's too pro-Soviet line and the market reforms. But anyways, he was one of the greatest revolutionaries in history.

[Magic Carpets Corp.]

Coinciding with Tet, or the Lunar New Year in 1968, Viet Cong and North Vietnamese forces attacked more than 40 provincial capitals and went into Saigon itself even entering the US embassy.
They were eventually thrown back having lost more than 15,000 men but it was a massive psychological blow for the US, hardening opposition to the war back in America and contributing to the decision to withdraw.

This is in reference merely to the first phase of the Tet Offensive. 9k anti-communist dead, 15k communist dead, and the anti-communist forces, primarily the ARVN and the Americans, outnumbered the communists 3 to 1. By the time the offensive wrapped up at the end of 1968, the ARVN and the Americans had 45,000 KIA, the communists had 44,000 KIA.

The US commander in Vietnam, General Westmoreland deplored Giap's seeming cavalier attitude to large numbers of casualties among his own troops.
"Such a disregard for human life," said Westmoreland, "may make a formidable adversary but it does not make a military genius."

Yeah right, NLF and the VPA suffered less casualties than the ARVN during the second phase of the Indochina War.

[Ismail]

Concerning his modern politics, the entry on his death in The New York Times notes the following:

"He was regarded as an elder statesman whose hard-line views had softened with the cessation of the war that unified Vietnam. He supported economic reform and closer relations with the United States while publicly warning of the spread of Chinese influence and the environmental costs of industrialization.

[....]

In his final years, General Giap was an avuncular host to foreign visitors to his villa in Hanoi, where he read extensively in Western literature, enjoyed Beethoven and Liszt and became a convert to pursuing socialism through free-market reforms.

'In the past, our greatest challenge was the invasion of our nation by foreigners,' he told an interviewer. 'Now that Vietnam is independent and united, we can address our biggest challenge. That challenge is poverty and economic backwardness.'

Addressing that challenge had long been deferred, he told the journalist Neil Sheehan in 1989. 'Our country is like an ill person who has suffered for a long time,' he said. 'The countries around us made a lot of progress. We were at war.'"

So basically the same rationale given by the Vietnamese, Chinese and Laotian leaderships: controlled markets supposedly develop the productive forces faster, ergo they should be supported for the time-being.

[Paul Pott]

This ruined my day. I have nothing but respect for general Giap.

[Smith's Dream]

Say what you like about Vietnam and the path it took after liberation, that guy was on the right side of a bad war.

[Hrafn]

I'm... conflicted. Deeply so.

[erupt]

History will view him as the effective military strategist he was; his environmental, political, and economic concerns will be less relevant, since he was the driving force behind Vietnamese national liberation, which succeeded.

Ideology will be blind as to what there is to learn from him, specifically militarily.

[TheEmancipator]

Concerning his modern politics, the entry on his death in The New York Times notes the following:

"He was regarded as an elder statesman whose hard-line views had softened with the cessation of the war that unified Vietnam. He supported economic reform and closer relations with the United States while publicly warning of the spread of Chinese influence and the environmental costs of industrialization.

[....]

In his final years, General Giap was an avuncular host to foreign visitors to his villa in Hanoi, where he read extensively in Western literature, enjoyed Beethoven and Liszt and became a convert to pursuing socialism through free-market reforms.

'In the past, our greatest challenge was the invasion of our nation by foreigners,' he told an interviewer. 'Now that Vietnam is independent and united, we can address our biggest challenge. That challenge is poverty and economic backwardness.'

Addressing that challenge had long been deferred, he told the journalist Neil Sheehan in 1989. 'Our country is like an ill person who has suffered for a long time,' he said. 'The countries around us made a lot of progress. We were at war.'"

So basically the same rationale given by the Vietnamese, Chinese and Laotian leaderships: controlled markets supposedly develop the productive forces faster, ergo they should be supported for the time-being.

When a tankie dies you will no doubt be the first to comment on a thread atributed to him, claiming he was actually a bourgeois counter-revolutionary who didn't lick Hoxha's arse.

Seriously, Ismail, give it a rest. I'm no great fan of Giap's politics either but I'm not sure what this adds to the discussion.

[Ismail]

When a tankie dies you will no doubt be the first to comment on a thread atributed to him, claiming he was actually a bourgeois counter-revolutionary who didn't lick Hoxha's arse.

Seriously, Ismail, give it a rest. I'm no great fan of Giap's politics either but I'm not sure what this adds to the discussion.

Erm, Vietnam was literally the only self-proclaimed socialist country that enjoyed friendly ties with Albania (in part because the Vietnamese continued to praise Stalin and publish his works at least as late as 1989.) When Hoxha died the Vietnamese declared two days of national mourning in which the country's flag was flown half-mast.

Sinister Cultural Marxist and MarxEngelsLeninStalinMao were speculating about Giap's ideology after the 70's, so I answered them.

[KurtFF8]

Yeah I didn't actually see Ismail attackingGiap here.

Anyway it's good that this got some coverage in at least the British media but I haven't seen much of it at all in the American press

[fahadsul3man]

RIP general Giap one of greatest revolutionary anti imperialist figures ever

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Erm, Vietnam was literally the only self-proclaimed socialist country that enjoyed friendly ties with Albania (in part because the Vietnamese continued to praise Stalin and publish his works at least as late as 1989.) When Hoxha died the Vietnamese declared two days of national mourning in which the country's flag was flown half-mast.

Sinister Cultural Marxist and MarxEngelsLeninStalinMao were speculating about Giap's ideology after the 70's, so I answered them.

I wasn't speculating about his ideology, just commenting on the fact that after the war he became involved in environmental issues, particularly against the exploitation by large Chinese Capital of Bauxite deposits in the mountains of Vietnam. Also on the fact that he did criticize the Vietnamese party, even if he didn't really understand the fact that it was Vietnam's neoliberalism that was opening it up to those problems in the first place.

I don't know if real ideological precision should be expected from military leaders. He wasn't an economist, he was someone who knew how to organize peasants into an army and command it.

This ruined my day. I have nothing but respect for general Giap.

Why? The dude lived to 102 after living a life fighting two of the three most powerful Capitalist nations of the Cold War. He lived a pretty long, rich life in the end, no?

[Aleister Granger]

He's the embodiment of all the things all collegian Trotskyites say they want to be: an actual hard-boiled revolutionary. And he repelled two capitalist powers and one super power. And won. All three times. And lived. All three times. And he even survived to 102. 100-fucking-2. Most Americans are going to croak in their sixties they say.

Regardless of how you feel about communism, the man deserves every ounce of your respect.

I've seen some coverage of him. What's surprising is that, despite the fact he was a socialist, the media's been surprisingly respectful. Though I fear turning FOX News who are probably throwing a small party. Or at least a few high fives.

[TheEmancipator]

Sinister Cultural Marxist and MarxEngelsLeninStalinMao were speculating about Giap's ideology after the 70's, so I answered them.

I apologise.

[Devrim]

Personally I won't be shedding any tears over the death of a general in a capitalist army.

Devrim

[A.J.]

All genuine anti-imperialists should mourn the passing of General Giap.

R.I.P.

[Sir Comradical]

Personally I won't be shedding any tears over the death of a general in a capitalist army.

Devrim

What a revolting thing to say.

The imperialists torture a poor country trying to liberate itself from colonial subjugation, and this is your attitude to a man who led that resistance?

Despicable.

[Blake's Baby]

One gang of capitalists and imperialists, backed by foreign capitalists and imperialists, was replaced by another gang of capitalists and imperialists, backed by foreign capitalists and imperialists. What's the difference?