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there isnt an english page on the site of ''New Communist Party of Yugoslavia'' but on Wikipedia i read: "[the party] considers China, Vietnam, DPRK, Laos and Cuba socialist countries''. if thats true, the party is undoubtedly reactionary.
besides, what kind of revolutionary proletarian organization joins the rank of infamous revisionists?!
NCPY is anti-revisionist party. It consider Tito, post-Ho shi Min leadership of Vietnam, post-Stalin leadership of USSR... revisionists.
Well yes, they consider China, Vietnam, DPRK, Laos and Cuba socialist countries, but China, Vietnam and Laos are for them revisionsits, while DPRK and Cuba are considered "normal" socialist countries (you have to understand that in today's situation in world, we need to adopt some sofisticated methods of fightings, so that's why they consider these countries better than ordinary capitalist states).
They're going under slogan: "Even the worst Socialism is better than the best Capitalism", so maybe that's why they are joining the ranks of revisionist international...
"Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy." - Mao Tse Tung
"Komunizam nije ljubav. Komunizam je čekić koji koristimo da zdrobimo neprijatelja." - Mao Ce Tung
revolucionarbgd-youtube
So if all the corporations and businesses in said country merge, and seize control formally - that's a socialist country? And if some guy decides to take it by force, and than he rules the country just as they would?
Because I'm pretty sure that the people in those countries have no control over the means of production, and it's not "social ownership" just because a ruler calls it so. Modern SD parties also call themselves socialist, yet we don't believe them, do we?
The whole point of communism is the theory of dialectal history, and advancement. How can one be a communist without seeking the way to communism?
I'm not against revisionism as a concept, but this is getting ridiculous. Especially considering that Leninism itself can be seen as revisionist. But I'm not against supporting those countries because their revisionist, I'm against them because I can't find anything remotely communist in them.
In what way is DPRK better than a capitalist state? In the sense of quality of life? In the sense that as any "marxist state" they have no aspiration towards communism (or even socialism at times), and therefor are even more reactionary than social democrats? Social democrats at lest have the delusion of changing something, I have yet to see a any "marxist" ruling party doing anything towards actual communism.
I'm waiting with excitement for the 'New Communist Party of Britain' to engage me in their revolution...
Seriously, don't some of these parties do more than just get off to playing cold war politics? It's pathetic. If they had any cajones they'd disband for the good of the working class and the left.
if we need "sophisticated methods of fighting", then why are you making things so simple and childish for yourself? you believe that any person, party or state which claims to be socialist must be socialist!
workers have more rights in some openly capitalist countries than these countries which use a "socialist" mask to cover their nature.
" Doesn't Hitler profess belief in "socialism"? Twenty years ago even Mussolini was a "socialist"! And what does their "socialism" amount to? Fascism! "
Mao - "THE ORIENTATION OF THE YOUTH MOVEMENT" (may 4, 1939)
Well for someone from western europe or nothr America, I assume you'll make answer like this: "In my country (Western Europe or North America) workers have more freedom than in DPRK"... If I wasn't from Eastern Europe, and If I didn't know what that same "capitalism" did to my people I would believe in this...
That's great! Comparing Hitler and Mussolini to DPRK, Laos, Cuba... -,-
You might put that for some Marxist "tankie", but everyone who actually analized the economy of nazi germany or fascist italy, would see that those countries didn't have anything in common to the socialist one.
And for both of you, so you implicate we should all adopt idea that capitalism in USA is better than Socialism in Korea or Cuba? Not in my state...
"Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy." - Mao Tse Tung
"Komunizam nije ljubav. Komunizam je čekić koji koristimo da zdrobimo neprijatelja." - Mao Ce Tung
revolucionarbgd-youtube
No, we should all adopt the idea that capitalism in the USA is better than capitalism in Cuba and whatever it is they have in North Korea (but it sure as hell isn't the free association of equal producers). By objective measure, the standard of living is (see: Human Development Index).
pew pew pew
Haha, great. If I don't know what that "Capitalism" that was installed in my country after the fall of Yugoslavia actually broth to us, I might even believe in that...
And the fact that they're exploating half of the world is also one of the indicators why there individuals live "better" than in Cuba or DPRK. When people in these oppressed countries realise that and take a stick and beat the American influence out of their country, we'll see how long will American economy actually will be able to last.
"Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy." - Mao Tse Tung
"Komunizam nije ljubav. Komunizam je čekić koji koristimo da zdrobimo neprijatelja." - Mao Ce Tung
revolucionarbgd-youtube
You keep saying this, but the logic behind it appears to be "the system I lived under was called socialism, therefore I know what socialism is." But instead of this fallacious logic, try to apply Marxism.
So you admit then that US capitalism is better to live under than Cuban capitalism?
pew pew pew
North Korea has much in common with old fascist states. forced labour, cult of personality, militarism, unelected leaders, lack of bourgeois democratic rights, censorship, lack of rights for workers and ...
nobody said that "capitalism in USA is better than Socialism in Korea or Cuba" because no body believed that there is socialism in North Korea, Cuba or such countries at all. but worker movement, women movement, students and all progressive sections of society have forced the governments in advanced countries to recognise some bourgeois democratic rights for them while in countries which you support, humans are treated like slaves or animals.
capitalism has done many crimes in Balkans or everywhere else. but the way to oppose it is not supporting backward sections of imperialism system against its advanced and more powerful sections. by adopting this policy, you are closing the door for true socialism.
"New communist party of Yugoslavia" is just carrying fascism under the banner of "communism".
Sure thing. So it seems that entire history of 1917. - 1991. Socialism is actualy anti-marxist? I don't want to argue with you anymore. I know what system was better for workers in my country.
You know all that too good, like you lived in those countries. It's too bad that those "forced labor" was called in Yugoslavia "radne akcije" or on english "working actions" which workers voluntarly applied for that. On those working actions people were working voluntiarly for rebuilding of country after WW2. They were building roads, bridges, railways, factories... all for free, so that society could benefit from it.
How about you stop adopting that retarded logic of Marxistic dogma, and try to understand the current situation in world, from economic, social and geo-political aspect, because, from what I can see, how "Socialism" exists in your country, you actually achieved nothing but empty words and phrases.
I never said I'm member of NCPY.
http://nkpj.org.rs/ - here is a link of their website... Of you don't know my language, well learn it, and then you should see what their ideas really are.
http://www.skoj.org.rs/eng.html - This is english part of website of their youth, so learn from there something, and for other ideas write them e-mail...
And that part about "fascism", if I don't know that my people were 5th nation heavist hitted with fascism in WW2, I could even got offended, but I'll forgive you this time, after all, people from western europe or north america have some "degenerated" idea after all, as a product of hundreads years of brainwashing in their countries...
"Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy." - Mao Tse Tung
"Komunizam nije ljubav. Komunizam je čekić koji koristimo da zdrobimo neprijatelja." - Mao Ce Tung
revolucionarbgd-youtube
It’s impossible to convince people in the US or Europe that the Chinese approach is better for the working class. Working for 14 hours a day in a smart phone factory for extremely low wages, and with no social security is surely not socialism.
Presenting China or North Korea as examples of socialism is extremely damaging for the cause of everybody who is opposing capitalism in the US or in Europe, and trying to fight the neo-liberal offensive. The European working class will definitely not fight for low wages, the end of labor laws and social security, low income distribution, and bad healthcare.
Didn't catch your first meaning there, grammatically speaking... I also speak Spanish if it's good for you. Unless of course you think I'm a defender of any capitalist system - then I'd be in the wrong forum to be clear.
What we're saying (actually he said buy I aggree with him) is that calling yourself a socialist doesn't make you so. And by that exact same standart. What is socialistic about North Korea? I don't know about Cuba so I don't wanna say stuff I don't know.
But why do we think that any of us try to convince you that Capitalism is ok? What we're saying is that's it's better to form or join true marxists groups, more loyal to the way of the man.
Nothing here should be taken personally.
Well, in all honesty, it was more of a civil war than a resistance.... Tito didn't lead a Communistic resistance there, he just hid in Russia, got out when it was safe, let Chetniks kill Partisans but prefered Partisans to kill Chetniks, everyone hate the Ustase - I actually wonder what spark to their minds faster - that they were fighting ourselves, and statistically that's why died and the axis didn't - or that they had some thousands Jews just as Germany came in, and I probably don't remember where they are right now, because I'm sure I put them somewhere...
Tito's astrategy (that worked, what do you know) was let the bloodbath commence, and let whoever stands lest to be the pillar of a new nation of hope. Basically it was bound to fought, and it's funny there's no mention to real minorities, 'cause they're the ones who suffer most in these kind of situations (blamed for supporting the other side, no matter what you do).
Would it make me a self-Hating Jew to say Tito acts JUST like our stereotype? I wonder if following a mostly-Jewish-thought ideology makes you more Jewish. Maybe that conspiracy IS indeed right, after all!
(No offence and all, comrade. My nation likes to reinvent some decades as well. Everyone does it)
Communists will continue to loose the debate as long as they quote Lenin on Imperialism the same way a Catholic priest quotes Aquinas or St Paul on homosexuality. Stop following some dead Russian like he's a theologian, saint or prophet. IMO Lenin would roll in his big red mausoleum anyways if he saw how people blindly regurgitate his words without context. The EU isn't bad because "Imperialism is bad", the EU is bad because it's a way to increase the power of Capital by breaking down the borders between states. The EU is a type of transnational capitalism (or one might say Imperialism) which Lenin would have been less familiar with anyhow, as his was an era of European military colonialism targeted towards technologically inferior states and not a bunch of Capitalist states freely associating in some kind of post-modern liberal federation to help foster business interests.
One practical fact is that radical revolution would likely lead to tension with major EU states and practical removal from the EU's decision making bodies anyways, but some kind of "national liberation" from the EU is the business of the Le Pens and Wilders of Europe, not its Communists. If most EU states went left, then why struggle to "liberate" oneself from it? Why not use its institutions to entrench multinational socialism, the way (to reference the "St Paul of Communism") Lenin did to the Russian Empire?
Socialist Party of Outer Space
The point is that the left needs to stop having this illusion, that the EU can somehow be transformed into some kind of progressive union. It was not created for this purpose, and it has been reactionary to the bone right from the start. Believing you can transform the EU into a progressive union is just like believing you can transform NATO into a force for peace and anti-imperialism.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it." - Karl Marx
"It is more pleasant and useful to go through the "experience of revolution" than to write about it." - V.I. Lenin
Formerly Random_Girl
It's not about "transforming" it into something that's "progressive", its about taking it over and revolutionizing it. The Russian state was founded by an Imperialist aristocracy yet that didn't stop Lenin from taking it over.
It's just that that didn't happen. The Bolsheviks didn't take over the old state, they built a new one. Also, the EU is not a state (not even close), it's an Imperialist alliance, it's like a mix of NATO and a free trade agreement. There is nothing to take over and "revolutionize" there.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it." - Karl Marx
"It is more pleasant and useful to go through the "experience of revolution" than to write about it." - V.I. Lenin
Formerly Random_Girl
The PCE has vote in its last congress, celebrated this weekend, to get out of the EU and the €, so will they be someday also part of this initiative? will the PCPE rejoin the PCE since they have no more diferences? Will the ELP also demand the dismantelation of the EU and € or that's just going too far?
Para los pueblos de todo el mundo, que luchan por la paz, la democracia y el socialismo, el leninismo es como el sol que trae consigo una vida alegre. - Ho Chi Minh
Comunes el sol y el viento, común ha de ser la tierra, que vuelva común al pueblo, lo que del pueblo saliera
Maoism is (...) Marxism Leninism on cocaine - Rafiq
Pas de liberté pour les ennemis de la liberté - Louis Antoine de Saint-Just
El marxismo conlleva muchos principios que en últimas instancias se compendian en una sola frase: “es justo rebelarse contra los reaccionarios" - Mao Tse-Tung
Die Barrikaden schließen der Strasse aber geöffnet der Weg.
PRESS STATEMENT: On the meeting of the Secretariat of the European Communist “INITIATIVE”
On the 27/1/2014 the meeting of the 9 member Secretariat of the “INITIATIVE of Communist and Workers’ Parties to study and elaborate European issues and to coordinate their activity” took place in Brussels.
Representatives from the KKE, the Hungarian Workers’ Party, the Workers’ Party of Ireland, Communist Party (of Italy), the Communist Party of Slovakia, the Communist Party of the Peoples of Spain, the Communist Party of Sweden and the Communist Party of Turkey. The representative of the Socialist Party of Latvia was not able to attend for health reasons.
The work of the meeting was open to all the participant parties of the “INITIATIVE” . The Union of Revolutionary Communists of France and the Communist Party of the Soviet Union also attended the meeting of the Secretariat.
The meeting approved the “DECLARATION OF COMMUNIST AND WORKERS’ PARTIES FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE WORKING CLASS-PEOPLE’S STRUGGLE, FOR THE EU PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS”. The Declaration, which is also open to be signed by other communist and workers’ parties of Europe will be issued in the next few days.
During the meeting, issues which concern other joint interventions of the “INITIATIVE”, which will happen in the next period, were also discussed. These interventions will include amongst other things, the condemnation of anti-communism, the capitalist restructurings and the consequences at the expense of the workers, the Common Foreign Security and Defence Policy of the EU, and the imperialist wars, the exposure of the role of the “Europarties”, interventions on unemployment, health, education, farmers etc.
In this direction it was decided to organize joint events of the “INITIATIVE’ in major European cities.
The Secretariat approved a statement against the imperialist intervention of the EU in the Central African Republic, a statement on the developments in the Ukraine and a statement on the new crime against immigrants in Greece, and also against the implementation of the anti-communist law in Georgia.
In addition, solutions were advanced regarding technical-operational issues to do with the website of the “INITIATIVE” and its Technical Secretariat.
Finally, it decided to a announce a poster-placard competition with as its theme : “The struggle of the peoples of Europe against the EU and the inter-state capitalist unions.”
Brussels 27/1/2014
