Security guards?

[A.J.]

Are these goons "workers in uniform" or agents of bourgeois state repression?

I'm inclined to say the latter. Not merely because I've happened to have a few personal run-ins with these morons(specifically nightclub doormen) over the years but because - although they're not directly employed by the bourgeois state(typically, nowadays, they're hired by private security firms such as G4S) unlike cops, screws and armed forces personnel - they're still ultimately enforcers of bourgeois law, defenders of the current social order.

Morever, and let's be brutally honest here, people who go in for such a line of work are usually of below average intelligence and are therefore highly susceptible to the appeal of backward reactionary movements such as fascism and Scottish nationalism.

The obvious implications for the labour movement is that as the class struggle intensifies in the months and years ahead these pea-brained louts are likely to be deployed by the ruling class as strike-breakers and other such violent roles in the service of capital.

[Questionable]

I'm inclined to agree with you. They occupy the same general role in society as the police force, perhaps even more so because security guards are typically employed to protect private property directly rather than general social order as police do.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

To take your example of nightclub doormen, they are merely (normally) waged employees of a private company. They have nothing to do with the security of the bourgeoisie, or defending capitalism. In a socialist society, you'd need bouncers at nightclubs, just because of the nature of the place and the event and the activities that occur.

Of course, it's a slightly different story when you get to higher-up security firms who provide high-level protection to large-scale capitalists, in a sense, although a personal bodyguard would surely still be a worker if they must sell their labour to survive? Then again, they may be 'part of the state' if they have crossed-over between private and state security.

High-level security enforcers are probably not going to be won round to socialism, anyway, so I wouldn't worry all that much.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Security guards are filth and scum. I can't sympathise with such dregs, disgusting cop-rejects and propertarian guardians.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Shit's complicated (well, always).
If we're talking about G4S, various armed strike-breaking forces, private prison employees, and security guards deployed at particularly sensitive points (banks, for example), I think it's pretty clear that we're talking about ruthless mercenaries. Strategically speaking, they basically need to be approached like the police, with an eye to damaging their morale, undermining their sense of security, and generally making their lives as miserable as possible.
On the other hand, if we're looking at grocery stores, guards hired by small landlords, parking garages, etc. they tend to come disproportionately from the most marginalized sections of the proletariat (racialized, uneducated, etc). They often lack the ideological commitment of police on one hand, and on the other lack the monetary incentive to loyalty of the "higher grade" of private security. At a measly $12 an hour - even though it's better than minimum wage - only the stupidest, most macho security guard will actually put their safety on the line. In practice, convincing them to turn a blind eye is often possible. As a subject for propaganda, they're not really more or less likely to be more or less receptive than anyone else in a similar income bracket, since they're essentially precarious, and will probably move on from security as soon as "something better" comes along. Though, practically speaking, you're more likely to need to punch them in the face than most other workers. I don't think there's necessarily anything particularly shameful about this (one might also punch a proletarian in the face to prevent a gay bashing, or to secure a picket line) - at worst it's unfortunate.

[Sasha]

Im a bouncer myself so this is something I gave a lot of thought, its a difficult thing, I enforce rules but its rules on private property, when people enter by buying a ticket they agree to abide by those rules and if they break them they know the consequences. In general its just getting bounced with maybe a venue ban but in some cases it ends in arrest, for example in cases of (sexual) assault or harddrug dealing.
when I started I felt really shitty but one of the guys I once got arrested himself said it was the "contractual" answer to him trying to punch me. If I'd punched back I would have lost my job and maybe could have maimed or killed him. He tried to punch someone doing their job while knowing the consequences but taking the risk. He said that if I was working the registry and he tried to rob me no one would complain if I called the cops either.
So while I ofcourse let more shit slide than colleagues sometimes I cant do anything else. Which I would never think about when voluntarily bouncing political places.
Luckily most of my work is first-aid, catching crowdsurfers etc etc.
But its certainly why I want to quit as soon as I can.

[Zukunftsmusik]

Of course, it's a slightly different story when you get to higher-up security firms who provide high-level protection to large-scale capitalists, in a sense, although a personal bodyguard would surely still be a worker if they must sell their labour to survive? Then again, they may be 'part of the state' if they have crossed-over between private and state security.

Police also sell their labour power. They're still tools of the oppressive class.


I'm not only concerned about "high-level bodyguards". What about "low-level" security guards who make their living by protecting private property, chasing poor people, drug addicts etc. They tend to act as a private police force, especially because they very often cross the legal boundaries they officially are bound by (they aren't really allowed to act as police, not to the full extent, anyway) - and get away with it. And as Takayuki implies, these jobs tend to attract a certain... type (my gf always says that the reason security guards are so grumpy is because they never got into police academy )

[Ele'ill]

To take your example of nightclub doormen, they are merely (normally) waged employees of a private company. They have nothing to do with the security of the bourgeoisie, or defending capitalism.

uh

[Sasha]

Also, one of the main political centers here in town where I used to volunteer at the door bounced someone who kept trying to come back in, instead of closing the steeldoor and calling the cops when he started to harras passerby they tried to sort it themselves, they almost killed him by accident and spend a serious time in jail for it.
Even revolutionary places exist not outside the non-revolutionary world, should you endanger your or others life and freedom because of your political principles for drunk or drugged out assholes who won't spare you for one second the other way around?

And at least me with my professional training now passes that training to volunteers at political places, hopefully that will help getting other people not hurt or nicked in the future.

[A.J.]

To take your example of nightclub doormen, they are merely (normally) waged employees of a private company. They have nothing to do with the security of the bourgeoisie, or defending capitalism. In a socialist society, you'd need bouncers at nightclubs, just because of the nature of the place and the event and the activities that occur.

I wasn't trying to use bouncers as an example. Merely citing a personal issue I have with them(perhaps it wasn't relevant to the topic in hand). As you mention it, however, in a nightclub during socialism-communism would there really exist such a division of labour that there would be people whose sole function it was to provide security?

[Glitchcraft]

Who considers bouncers to be pigs? They are workers at a night club. They get promoted to bartender not to detective. It's one thing to work for a company whose sole purpose is to defend property and another whose primary purpose is to provide alcohol and maintain a dance floor.

What about internet security firms whose entire existence is to protect wealthy interests online? If private security companies are the same as cops aren't cyber security guards pigs too? Where is that line to be drawn?

[Zukunftsmusik]

I don't think bouncers can be compared to police, nor to security guards in general.

[Popular Front of Judea]

And then there is my case. I worked as front desk person at building housing vulnerable poor people. Besides assisting tenants my job emphatically had a bouncer component. I blocked unauthorized, barred people from entering the building. At times I physically did so, dragging them out on occasion. When people got past me despite my best efforts I called the police. Was I an "agent of bourgeois state repression"?.

OP have you been responsible for anything more than your own ass?

[A.J.]

We're not talking about bouncers in particular but security guards in general.

[Fakeblock]

I think it depends. If private security firms do typical police work they're not much different. If private companies play the same role as the state I think we can safely view them as extensions of it, even if they have no immediate connection to the sovereign state.

[Popular Front of Judea]

So we are all for kicking a working class person to the curb if they become a security guard? What other opportunities are there out there for someone with a high school degree to their name?

Sometimes you can cut the class privilege in this forum with a knife.

[Zukunftsmusik]

uh, maybe read the thread, dude/dudette. esp. Garbage Disposal Unit's post?

[Popular Front of Judea]

Yes I did read the post and while I don't disagree with it, I don't care for the tone. How you people recruit actual workers is beyond me.

uh, maybe read the thread, dude/dudette. esp. Garbage Disposal Unit's post?

[A.J.]

So we are all for kicking a working class person to the curb if they become a security guard? What other opportunities are out there for them?

Sometimes you can cut the class privilege in this forum with a knife.

If you think I'm going to be sympathetic towards security guards because they only took the job out of economic necessity then you've got another thing coming.

My sympathies lie with the most disadvantaged and vulnerable in society. The very people who security guards are employed to brutalise and harass in defence of private property.

Also, stop being so bloody patronising.

[Zukunftsmusik]

Yes I did read the post and while I don't disagree with it, I don't care for the tone. How you people recruit actual workers is beyond me.

Whether or not you're an "actual worker" doesn't say much if your job is to directly and violently enforce state rule (police) and private property (security guards).