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The Venus Project
Anyone have any thoughts or comments on the Venus Project? The explaining video on their site was rather vague in describing the actual system. Can anyone evaluate potential faults in the system based on the information given? The Venus Project proposes a "resource based economy". Here's the site if you are interested www (DOT) thevenusproject (DOT) com
P.S. I'm new to the site so please excuse any anomalies in this post from the posts of more experienced members!
Google 'site:revleft.com venus project'
The Venus Project is a project of communism. It recognizes as main problem a monetary economy which means an elimination or money. Besides it plans to limit property and replace its private part for utilization as Proudhon and other anarchists planned.
But its create Jacque Fresco says it isn't communism at all. The reason of that IMHO is compromising of a term of communism in bourgeois media. The Lenin's and Stalin's efforts helped in compromising it a lot to be honest.
Then Fresco propose a communism without communist label.
But disadvantage of the project is that there is no plan for transition period. There is even no greater will to work out such plan. And it makes this project utopian one.
"Property is theft."
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
"the system of wage labor is a system of slavery"
Karl Heinrich Marx
i'm a huge fan of fresco for better or worse, he seems to hit the proverbial nail on the head consistently. it was him in large part that steered me toward communism. i agree with the idea that tvp is idealist from a technician or engineer's point of view, but then again i highly value educated people and appreciate the message jacque spreads about education. i don't think his vision will come into fruition but i think elements of it certainly will and that he has the right vision and idea. "man needs to be free to pursue the higher things, to bring each person to their highest potential". "we're not interested in emotions, we're interested in what you do with them." jf
"Earth is abundant with plentiful resources. Our practice of rationing resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and is counter productive to our survival." Jacque Fresco
"Everything and everyone is revisionist.
The only true socialism lies within revleft rhetoric, everyone knows that." G4b3n
RemusBleys: marx came back in the form of Bob Avakian
btw it's carl fuckin sagaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!! i look forward to all your enlightening opinions mr sagan!
"Earth is abundant with plentiful resources. Our practice of rationing resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and is counter productive to our survival." Jacque Fresco
"Everything and everyone is revisionist.
The only true socialism lies within revleft rhetoric, everyone knows that." G4b3n
RemusBleys: marx came back in the form of Bob Avakian
I would say stay away from it and the zeitgeist movement.
im just going to be blunt about it. its cooky.
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"snook up behind him and took his koran, he said sumthin about burnin the koran. i was like DUDE YOU HAVE NO KORAN and ran off." - Jacob Isom, Amarillo Resident.
Didn't the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist movement go their separate ways recently? That's what I've heard at least.
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Check out my speculative fiction project: NOVA MUNDI
Formally, they did. But they're still saying virtually the same.
"Property is theft."
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
"the system of wage labor is a system of slavery"
Karl Heinrich Marx
TVP is a utopian movement that doesn't really have a really good plan of action(one of the steps towards the completion of the project is to create a amusement park showcasing how cool it would be to live like that). Plus it's anti-working class power, instead it would rely on engineers and scientists to organize everything while we're just their playthings. I like to think of the movement/Jaque as sort of a 21st Century advocate of the philosopher king but instead of philosopher it's a scientist.
We claim to live and die equal, the way we were born: we want this real equality or death; that’s what we need.
And we’ll have this real equality, at whatever price. Unhappy will be those who stand between it and us! Unhappy will be those who resist a wish so firmly expressed.
The French Revolution was nothing but a precursor of another revolution, one that will be bigger, more solemn, and which will be the last.
-Gracchus Babeuf
interesting observation. do you feel it is working class exclusion?(i'm not trying to assume your point of view just curious). he calls for everyone to be educated in whatever fields they choose, i don't think he is putting engineers and scientists on a pedestal above normal people. (although he might be, i can't speak for the man) i think he stresses the importance of things necessary for people to live comfortably, even without having money or political sway or power. he says "machines should free man, man has to be free". i assume when most people who understand communism or anarchism refer to those things that they refer to them as free societies. in all reality everyone needs to work together in my opinion, we cannot continue a road of divisions and exclusion and hyper individualism. as jacque stresses, we must eliminate competition if we are to thrive as a species and subsequently as a planet. i agree his view is idealist, but i don't fault him for it. he does not offer a transitional theory or approach at all from what i gather but i think ultimately he is helping the cause, encouraging critical thinking, to question all things objectively, and contribute what you can as an individual.
"Earth is abundant with plentiful resources. Our practice of rationing resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and is counter productive to our survival." Jacque Fresco
"Everything and everyone is revisionist.
The only true socialism lies within revleft rhetoric, everyone knows that." G4b3n
RemusBleys: marx came back in the form of Bob Avakian
Hmm I think they should build an orbital colony visible in the daytime sky. That should work out well...
Yes I think it is exclusionary. Have you read the FAQ on their website, their plans, etc? They're basically a technocratic movement that says in the end a system of computers will be the decision making body. In the meantime during the transitional period there would teams of scientists and engineers who design and plan out all the details.
We claim to live and die equal, the way we were born: we want this real equality or death; that’s what we need.
And we’ll have this real equality, at whatever price. Unhappy will be those who stand between it and us! Unhappy will be those who resist a wish so firmly expressed.
The French Revolution was nothing but a precursor of another revolution, one that will be bigger, more solemn, and which will be the last.
When it comes to Zeitgeist, at least, there's a horrible racist and anti-semitic streak involved and it's a crock of nonsense.
This, and some critiques of the Venus Project can be seen here. Not a perfect article, but food for thought.
Coalition of Resistance - Fight Back Against the Cuts!
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I think it's at least interesting given that it's one of the only modern examples of utopian socialism.
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lot of news to me, i seen their docs, i don't know how that went by me. thanks for the link, i'm gonna read it out... i've never been a part of the movement in any case.
"Earth is abundant with plentiful resources. Our practice of rationing resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and is counter productive to our survival." Jacque Fresco
"Everything and everyone is revisionist.
The only true socialism lies within revleft rhetoric, everyone knows that." G4b3n
RemusBleys: marx came back in the form of Bob Avakian
If I already hated technocrats I can only imagine how much I would hate the Venus Project. Just the thought of it's uptopian "socialist" ideas makes me think of Fabian Socialists and their ant-proletariat super pro-intellectual/pro-technocratic positions.
The Venus Project
Not sure where to put this topic, perhaps the mod could decide for me.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23799590
What do socialists think about The Venus project!
In the video the guy says he wants to benefit all human beings(as a whole I hope) but the city some house look pretty luxurious. Also I think in the video it says that machines will do the humans jobs in factories so that's not appealing to a communist or a socialist, I mean what will the workers do since there's no work?
Maybe I misunderstood the video but I don't think the Venus Project is that appealing to me since machines do the humans job. Maybe if the humans just did the jobs I would consider it but not like that. Again though I might have misunderstood it.
why wouldn't we want to use machines to do as much work as is practical? The whole point of automation is to free up time for workers. I agree that in a capitalist system automation is not agreeable because it simply pushes labourers out of work or cuts their hours/wages, but in a post-capitalist system machines simply cut out the work we don't want to do (either because it's dangerous or boring)
This topic was discussed some time yet.
For example:
http://www.revleft.com/vb/venus-proj...html?p=2652057
And my opinion hasn't changed about it. But I can reitearet it:
The Venus Project is a project of communism. It recognizes as main problem a monetary economy which means an elimination or money. Besides it plans to limit property and replace its private part for utilization as Proudhon and other anarchists planned.
But its create Jacque Fresco says it isn't communism at all. The reason of that IMHO is compromising of a term of communism in bourgeois media. The Lenin's and Stalin's efforts helped in compromising it a lot to be honest.
Then Fresco propose a communism without communist label.
But disadvantage of the project is that there is no plan for transition period. There is even no greater will to work out such plan. And it makes this project utopian one.
And it is exactly most appealing to me and one of the main reasons why I am here.
Furthermore, I think it is only way how communism can be achieved. I mean when machines will be able to produce more than 95% of work needed and it won't be needed anymore. And I think it was exactly what Marx meant saying "according to the needs". Then and only then everyone will might become a poet, writer, singer, actor, etc. Certainly now you can be them too, but only few can be merely occupied in it.
Although it must be said that the Venus Project has never ansewred how to get there. Fortunately, the economics have.
Last edited by tuwix; 26th August 2013 at 12:14.
"Property is theft."
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
"the system of wage labor is a system of slavery"
Karl Heinrich Marx
