Results 1 to 20 of 27
Register your opposition to capitalism in the London elections
On July 25th workers in London will be given an opportunity to register their vote against the wages system and all its horrors.
http://spgb.blogspot.co.uk/
"Things are not produced today to meet people’s needs. They are produced to make a profit. And that’s the cause of the problems people in Tulse Hill face.
Under the profit system profits always come first. Before providing basic services like health care and transport, before improving conditions at work, and before providing decent housing.
It’s profits first, people second.
Under the profit system production is in the hands of profit-seeking business enterprises, all competing to maximise the rate of return on the money invested in them.
Decisions as to what to produce and how much, and how and where to produce it, are not made in response to people’s needs but in response to market forces.
As a result, the health and welfare of the workforce and the effects on the environment take second place. The profit system can’t help doing this. It’s the only way it can work. Which is why it must go.
I know this is only a local by-election but make no apology for raising this issue. The reduced incomes and cuts to services that people in Tulse Hill are having to put up with are a direct result of the profit system being in an economic crisis.
When this happens governments, whatever their political colour, have to cut their spending so as to give profits a chance to recover. As local councils are largely financed by central government this trickles down to the local level too.
So, what’s the alternative?
One thing is certain. The Tories, LibDems and Labour — and now UKIP — have nothing to offer. They all support the profit system and are only squabbling over which of them should have a go at running it.
If we are going to improve things we are going to have to act for ourselves, without professional politicians or leaders of any kind.
We are going to have to organise ourselves democratically to bring about a society geared to serving human needs not profits.
Production to satisfy people’s needs. That’s the alternative. But this can only be done if we control production and the only basis for this is common ownership and democratic control.
A member of the party has been put forward by the Socialist Party as a name on the ballot paper you can put an X against to register your rejection of the profit system and your agreement with the alternative."
Workers of all countries unite...
Finally a party socialist workers can use to capture state power to effectively neutralise it.
hah, I almost wish I lived in London! I wish all the best to them, and I hope there's a good turnout of people expressing their dissatisfaction and willing to learn about socialism
lol wut?
Could someone explain to me the idea behind this electioneering? To me it seems like a waste of time and resources and i fear it only furthers the facade of the ballot box.
The ballot box is one of the ways workers can democratically capture state power. The tradition of the workers movement is to ballot members on decisions. Plenty of activity 'socialists' perform is a waste of time and resources but using the ballot seems to be one of the more effective ones.
Here's a question, will the 'socialists' who call for unity, and decry the SPGB as sectarian, set an example, and vote for the SPGB? Surely, to not do so, would be 'sectarian' on their terms?
Good, I hope for them the best result.1
are you fucking kidding me. lol
"The exploited are not carriers of any positive project, be it even the classless society (which all too closely resembles the productive set up). Capital is their only community. They can only escape by destroying everything that makes them exploited...Capitalism has not created the conditions of its overcoming in communism-the famous bourgeoisie forging the arms of its own extinction-but of a world of horrors." -At Daggers Drawn
"Our strategy is therefore the following: to establish and maintain a series of centers of desertion, or poles of secession, of rallying points. For runaways. For those who leave. A series of places where we can escape from the influence of a civilization that is headed for the abyss." -Tiqqun, Call
In the democratic republic of Cockaigne, perhaps. On this Earth, democratic republics are an instrument of bourgeois dictatorship, and advancing into the era of the dictatorship of the proletariat requires smashing the bourgeois state apparatus - and the futility of purely parliamentary strategy should be apparent to anyone familiar with events in France, Spain, Chile etc. etc.
there are no "london elections" on the 25th (tomorrow!) - is this referring to a small council ward by-election or something? very unclear what is meant at all.
Until now, the left has only managed capital in various ways; the point, however, is to destroy it.
The labour movement has been playing that game for well over a century now. How is it effective? The workers cannot simply take hold of the ready-made state machinery and turn it to a new end.
Tulse Hill Ward in the Lambeth Council by-election. They'll get maybe a handful of votes, if it's more than a hundred I'll be surprised, they're a pretty uninspiring bunch of people.
EDIT: As are TUSC which is a project that's going nowhere.
Coalition of Resistance - Fight Back Against the Cuts!
"As for the lad "Sam_b", I've been reading this forum for a while and I don't think I've ever seen him contribute anything of any value. Most of the chap's posts seem to be confrontational and snarky digs at other posters. Thankfully, most other contributors do not seem to behave in this manner." - Some Guy
Well the labour movement of the 20th century wasn't really anti-Capitalist. They managed to capture state power numerous times and made many reforms so they were successful in that regard. The SPGB are different though, they ain't going in to win reforms etc... they want the complete and immediate abolition of capitalism and see using the platform of parliament as the most peaceful and democratic way to do this. They support this argument by referencing Marx's argument that the revolution could be peacefully achieved in democratic countries.
Supposing that it is effective it wouldn't be peaceful. It would result in an attempted coup and civil war. To claim this is peaceful is dishonest.
A few question...
So, suppose that they gain members in parliament but not enough to form a government would they participate in parliament?
If they gained enough to form a government then what?
Btw, i don't give a toss about Marx's views on he feasibility of bourgeois elections resulting in socialism because he was ignorant in this regard. There was still property requirements in the UK at Marx's death with 40% of adult males in 1884 disenfranchased because of this.
The ballot box is better than nothing.
My opinion is use it, but never be content with it.
"We must flee from Time, we must create a life that is feminine and human - it is these imperative objectives that must guide us in this world heavy with catastrophes."
Jacques Camatte, Echos from the Past
"For example, to say that the relation between industrial capital and the class of the wage workers is expressed in precisely the same way in Belgium and Thailand, and that the praxis of their respective struggles should be established without taking into account in either of the two cases the factors of race or nationality, does not mean you are an extremist, but it means in effect that you have understood nothing of Marxism."
Amadeo Bordiga, Factors of Race and Nation in the Marxist Analysis
It's a bit of a false dichotomy though, it's not a matter of vote or do nothing. We should be organising in our communities and our workplaces. It's the only way to develop the agency necessary to abolish capitalism.
So from what I gather they're trying to get people to vote for their candidate to protest the electoral system, and they're doing this by... participating in the electoral system?
I have heard this one before but I don't get it. I have never known a class conscious socialist majority attempt and fail to use elections.
At the moment reformists calling themselves Trotskist, Leninist etc etc have but that is a failure of reformism not democratic revolution.
If you can't get workers to put a cross on a ballot paper how the hell do you expect them to smash the army, police and the whole capitalist apperatus??
In the 'democratic republic of Cockaigne, perhaps'??
Workers already organise our 'work places' thank you. Workerss run capitalism from top to bottom. You wont find capitalists in the work place or on the front line. They invest and make profits, we organise the work place.
Funny how you're purposefully misinterpreting what i said. I guess you have nothing of value to say then.
The SPGB do not propose a purely parliamentary strategy.
For over a century now, almost every party with majority support at election time has captured state power.
As far as I know, you have no experience with the people in the SPGB, as its never come up before. As for whether it is inspiring, well I took a look at the International Socialist Group page titled About us (http://internationalsocialist.org.uk.../get-involved/) and quite honestly, I have to say I find the SPGB much more inspiring in comparison. The first part on socialism suggests the grassroots would be organising a hierarchy over them. Why is domination prefaced with capitalist? The parts on ending oppression and anti-imperialism, say what they are against but not enough positively on what they are for.
And we now have much broader suffrage, so surely this is less relevant not more? The participation in parliament would be for propagating socialism.
The SPGB do not argue that there is dichotomy between voting or doing nothing.
If you support the SPGB case then you ought to vote for the SPGB. The SPGB are not standing to defend the electoral system.
