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What is the class nature of the North Korean regime?
I post this here as I would like a thorough discussion and not the usual "Kim is evil!!" etc type discussion.
What is this strange country? Is it a deformed workers state? A deformed bourgeois state?
North Korea reminds me classic feudal system. There is "unequivocal" monarch with some "divine" qualities. His family that is equivalent of feudal aristocracy. And all minor vassals who own land and means of prodaction and the rest of society who has almost nothing.
It is even hardly state capitalism. It is more similiar to feudalism.
"Property is theft."
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
"the system of wage labor is a system of slavery"
Karl Heinrich Marx
State capitalist; like all other nation-states. The ideological bent of the regime means little to the operation of capital in North Korea, which is tied to the international bourgeoisie.
ex.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajin-S...c_Special_Zone
"The modern state regardless of its form is... the ideal collective capitalist. The more productive forces it takes into its possession... so many more citizens does it exploit. The workers remain wage workers, proletarians. The capitalist relation is not eliminated." - Engels, Anti-Duhring
“…the transformation of the great establishments for production and distribution into joint-stock companies [trusts] and state property show how unnecessary the bourgeoisie are for that purpose. All the social functions of the capitalist are now performed by salaried employees.” op. cit. p. 385 (Moscow 1954)
"The executive of the modern state is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie" - Communist Manifesto
Taken by itself, regime's like those in North Korea, which seems more extreme than those in Laos, Vietnam, Cuba and China, may seem different somehow but really is based on the same underlying social relations. Neither state property or a one-party state change the base nature of these regimes and the economic apparatus they manage.
It is not a dictatorship of the proletariat, that's for sure. Ideologically, it's supposed to be something akin to Mao's "democratic dictatorship" in which the national bourgeoisie is somehow transformed into a socialist force by cooperation with the exploited classes.
Hard to give it a name. I would definitely not call it a capitalist state although I suspect it might increasingly become more and more like China.
"A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another." - Mao Zedong
Stalin vs H. G. Wells - Marxism vs Liberalism
The State and Revolution
The Critique of the Gotha Programme
The DPRK is Socialist.
Mao once said that the most fundamental characteristic of socialism is class rule, in what way does the proletariat exersize a dictatorship in North Korea?
Men vanish from earth leaving behind them the furrows they have ploughed. I see the furrow Lenin left sown with the unshatterable seed of a new life for mankind, and cast deep below the rolling tides of storm and lightning, mighty crops for the ages to reap.
~Helen Keller
To despise the enemy strategically is an elementary requirement for a revolutionary. Without the courage to despise the enemy and without daring to win, it will be simply impossible to make revolution and wage a people’s war, let alone to achieve victory. ~Lin Biao
http://commiforum.forumotion.com/
Gotta love one-liners. How is it even vaguely socialist? Is hereditary succession something a "socialist country" does?
How can the DPRK be state capitalist and apply Juche at the same time?
The answer is not so simple as to say whether North Korea is socialist or not. The idea that the situation is so black and white is absurd. I think the most simple explanation of what North Korea looks like today(because if one knows their history they know they North Korea had such a boom in economy and living conditions before the fall of the Soviet Union that even liberal economists admitted their awe when looking at the growth) that North Korea is a more a product of one country with limited natural resources trying to remain socialist while 99.9% of the world work against it. The soil is extremely hard to farm is the region is mostly mountainous; not to mention the damage done to the land from the Korean War. Fishing is possible but limited as the space of ocean the DPRK can sail it's ships is limited by political boundaries. The state of North Korea today has more to do with their persistence to not giving into the capitalist world than it stems directly from some preconceived attempt to establish state capitalism.
It is absurd to even attempt to make any type of argument putting the Kims in a good light. Every single person with a brain in their skulls can figure out that the Kims' little dynasty is not at all anywhere near any type of socialist model. I agree with Tuwix, calling it a feudal state.
I'd just like to let you know that people like you are a part of what makes people want to run into Glenn Beck and Ron Pauls' outstretched arms.
'The DPRK is socialist' not even the most horrible of stalinoid demagogues believe this shit. You must be a real special case.
Forced labour in horrendous conditions (often outsourced to Russia and China at low cost) with little to no pay, and with threats against would-be refugees of what will happen to their family if they escape, obstruction of scientific and historical education for personality/ mysticist cults, strict policing of personalities into empty stereotypes and gender-roles (see 'Socialist hairstyle' or 'Correct names for Korean women'), ultranationalism, complete and utter militarisation of the population and rule by a hereditary monarch and his decadent, affluent, capitalist buddies. These are the characteristics of socialism, yeah?
I'm not going to lie when I say that people like you make me sick. And don't even try that 'US supporter' liberal chain-argument you right-wing pieces of shit are so fond of using to draw attention to the fact that you called that fucking hellhole 'socialism'. Judging from this and older posts of yours, I find it unbelievable that you aren't at the very least restricted for your Kim family ass-kissing.
'despite being a comedy, there's a lot of truth to this, black people always talking shit behind white peoples back. Blacks don't give a shit about white, why do whites give them so much "nice" attention?'
- Top Comment on the new Youtube layout.
EARTH FOR THE EARTHLINGS - BULLETS FOR THE NATIVISTS
THANK YOU. These are the words I have been wanting to say to people who show support for the DPRK. I almost can't even believe he was being serious when he said that. But nevertheless, what you said summed up my feelings perfectly.
Its simple really. The Workers Party and the Peoples Army play the leading role in their society, and they basically represent the interests of the proletariat as a class.
I don't see any other economic class in control: I've read alot of about how "the Kims" are like, really big awful ole meanies and stuff. I've heard people toss around alot of terms like "state capitalist" in a general way. But I've never seen a serious examination of the political economy of DPRK that shows how there is a coherent class of people privately owning the means of production, purchasing labor as a commodity, extracting surplus value from it, M-C-M' etc.
Well, socialist it is not. But you are quite correct to point out that the terms being bandied about "feudal" or "state capitalist" are more like epithets than meaningful characterizations. IMO, North Korea is a deformed workers' state -- with a plan collectivized economy, and no bourgeoisie, really. The conditions are pretty bad, and one might say this is a very deformed workers' state. Yeah the Kims suck. But unless you want to argue that they represent a new class phenomenon, which seems highly unlikely you wind up with the idea that they are Stalinist bureaucrats that benefit from the property forms of a workers' state.
Can I ask where everyone is getting the info so that they can analyse the issue? How do you know whether DPRK is whatever you believe it is? Cause as far I checked, I couldnt find info for the majority of its economy and social system in order to make conclusions.
There is NO economy to examine! If you don't have the brain power to recognize a feudal state led by a monarchy masquerading as leftist heroes, then please see a doctor. Oh wait, you can't see a doctor if you're in North Korea though because the Kims refuse medical aid to their people. Oh wait, can't learn about medicine either, because all the books are ramblings of how Kim Il Sung is a god and shoots colorful unicorns out of his asshole.
In other words, you glanced at MSNBC one night and now you're smarter than anyone asking honest questions about the political economy of north Korea. Got it.
I don't really understand how one could label it a feudal society. What are the ways in which a surf class tied to land is the dominant mode of production in the DPRK? Does having a succession within one family automatically qualify an entire nation as feudal now? The kingdoms of mid-evil Europe weren't feudal just because they had kings, but (at least using a Marxist analysis) rather because of the mode of production found there.
I'm not trying to defend the DPRK per se but I just have yet to see anyone make this case other than saying "well look how the family is ruling, therefore it is a feudal country"
LOL. I know more about North Korea than most people. If you are trying to accuse me of buying into the corporate media, then that is hilarious. In fact, I was trying to get a visa to visit the DPRK before Kim Jong Un's fat ass started to intimidate me.
Anyway, since you are accusing me of being a brainwashed tard with my MSNBC, please do explain to me how the Kims have improved that prosperous (HAHAHAHA) country.
