NSA Spying, Liberal Naivety, And Radical Realities

[KurtFF8]

After all Ecuador hasn't extradited Julian Assange yet, so that could mean there's at least some hope for him.

Ecuador already granted Assange asylum, so they won't extradite him (as that wouldn't make much sense after having granted the asylum)

[Hexen]

But the increasingly neo-tributary character of the US-led imperialism could easily lead to a catastrophic World War III.

I think the article lost all creditability here in the bolded part since it's essentially a conspiracy theorist keyword here for one thing.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Why do people spell America with a "k"? Is their C key not working? At least "Amerikkka", while incredibly stupid, has some meaning.

[Point Blank]

Espionage is a blatant "political crime", which means it would not be included in extradition treaties. A military crime at most, but even those are often excluded by extradition agreements.

Of course, bourgeois governments have no issue with changing the definition of political crimes when they find it convenient ... I remember that case mentioned in Commentaries to the Society of the Spectacle of a German print worker extradited from France to West Germany after his crime of drafting subversive leaflets was judged "social, not political" because "political criminals accept society and do not attack social structures". Ahhh!

[Red Commissar]

Evidently he was scheduled to go on a flight to Cuba today but ended up not being on the flight.

I'm surprised he decided against Cuba (if of course that's what happened)

I was under the impression that he was supposed to fly to Ecuador via Cuba, at least according to some stories. I don't think he was intending to stay in Cuba, just using it as a connection.

[MarxSchmarx]

Ecuador already granted Assange asylum, so they won't extradite him (as that wouldn't make much sense after having granted the asylum)

Another difference is that unlike Snowden, I don't believe the US has charged Assange with any crime, and I'm not sure if ecuador and Sweden have a bilateral extradition treaty.

As an aside, I've always found Assange's fear that Sweden will be more likely to extradite him to America than Britain a bit strange.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Another difference is that unlike Snowden, I don't believe the US has charged Assange with any crime, and I'm not sure if ecuador and Sweden have a bilateral extradition treaty.

As an aside, I've always found Assange's fear that Sweden will be more likely to extradite him to America than Britain a bit strange.

i remember being told that sweden actually has quite an extensive history of extraditing people to the states but i'm not sure if this is true. perhaps someone could shed some light on it either way - it'd make it clear why assange doesn't want to go there.

[Petrol Bomb]

It appears that Putin has refused to extradite Snowden to Washington. Also I would post a link to the article but my post count is too low. Pretty easy to find, either way.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Ah please stop with this 'holier than thou' attitude. 'We' are not some enlightened prophets sent down from the Marxian heavens to purify and raise up the 'masses'. Some of us are just workers too. Perhaps even privileged workers, for having had access to a greater level of education, though of course one could also say that some of us have not used this particularly effectively, judging by some of the daily stupidity posted on here.

I really don't think he's being "holier than thou" saying he's some enlightened prophet or whatever. I'd guess most Americans had no idea the government was spying in on us or at least as extensively as it's been shown. I mean I didn't think it was as extensive as it actually is.

Okay, so I read the link and he explains that he chose Hong Kong because he needed a destination that had the cultural and legal framework that allowed him to work without being detained. Fine.

Still, I question the value of what he and his fellow "citizens of conscience" are doing. It's a good bet his functional life is over whether he's extradited or not. He's sacrificed his life. For what?

What's your problem with Snowden? Why would you question the value of him leaking two HUGE stories to the press about government intrusion into our lives. The stuff he leaked is probably going to be the biggest news story of the year, it totally undermines people's opinions of the government/Obama administration. Instead of looking at the information he leaked and how we could use that to further the struggle against the capitalist system you're over here worried about why he leaked it and what it's going to mean for his life. I don't care if it's for selfish reasons, if he just wanted fifteen minutes of fame or whatever and he obviously knew the risks he was taking considering the fact that he got the fuck out of Dodge real quick.

[bcbm]

the political play between powers has become more important than what has been released. guardian should publish more and make the political angle more explicit. this isn't about who harbors what, this is about what he is revealing. which is, of course, the last thing those involved want.

[B5C]

I find it ironic that the biggest friends to these libertarian whistleblowers have been leftist governments.

I have noticed that too. The Libertarians and the ultra-lefists (Marxists & Socialists) have been calling Snowden an hero. Many progressives and some conservatives (many conservatives supporting Snowden as a tool against Obama) have stating that he did the right thing, but he should face charges and not to promote those secretes. WTF?

-Only 39% of Republicans support Prism-style domestic spying, while 58% of Dems support it.
- 54% say Snowden did a "good thing" and 30% disagreed. But 53% say Snowden should be prosecuted for the leak, with 28% saying he should not face legal action.
-That poll indicated Americans divided over Snowden's actions, with 44% saying it was right for Snowden to share information about the surveillance programs and 42% saying it was wrong.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...wdens-actions/

[Os Cangaceiros]

the political play between powers has become more important than what has been released. guardian should publish more and make the political angle more explicit. this isn't about who harbors what, this is about what he is revealing. which is, of course, the last thing those involved want.

Yeah, John McCain was on some news show saying how Beijing and Moscow not immediately handing over Snowden was "reminiscent of the Cold War". Some politicians are still amazed when other countries don't immediately say "HOW HIGH, MASTER?" when the USA tells them to jump.

I don't know anyone around where I live who views Snowden as having done anything wrong, in fact I was recently at a social gathering of people around here, mostly of your stereotypically conservative & libertarian leaning people, and this news story was actually brought up a couple times. People here consider him to be a hero. I think there's a lot of domestic support for what he did and I hope future people like him take that into account.

[Os Cangaceiros]

(I'd like to add that this support is not simply based upon knee-jerk Obama hatred, either)

[MarxArchist]

Yeah, John McCain was on some news show saying how Beijing and Moscow not immediately handing over Snowden was "reminiscent of the Cold War". Some politicians are still amazed when other countries don't immediately say "HOW HIGH, MASTER?" when the USA tells them to jump.

I don't know anyone around where I live who views Snowden as having done anything wrong, in fact I was recently at a social gathering of people around here, mostly of your stereotypically conservative & libertarian leaning people, and this news story was actually brought up a couple times. People here consider him to be a hero. I think there's a lot of domestic support for what he did and I hope future people like him take that into account.

What McCain meant to say is, "it's no longer nation states that threaten capitalism it's "individuals" and the same sort of shifty paranoia, scheming and illegal activity the CIA/NSA took part in during the cold war is now going to openly be unleashed on "individuals", as in, the citizenry of any nation at any time be it in the US, Afghanistan, Britain, France, Germany etc so get with it Russia- didn't you get the memo?".


This has been going on since the formation of the CIA and cold war paranoia. With advancing technology anything, and I mean anything, that will let them gather intel is going to be used. Nothing is off limits. The sad thing is people are becoming more and more desensitized to capital becoming more and more authoritarian. Also, the Obama card is still working wonders for the system. If this info came out, lets say, if Romney won the election, people would be out in the streets like they were when Bush was in office protesting the source of this (the patriot act/FISA). Today is slap a liberal day. Lets go celebrate it.

[Pawn Power]

I find it ironic that the biggest friends to these libertarian whistleblowers have been leftist governments.

Why wouldn't they be? One of the primary forces in the world that is fucking up their shit (U.S. economic and military imperialism) is being publicly embarrassed in front of their friends (eastern europe, etc.).

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Interesting clip from students that are questioning the NSA-recruiters at a recruitment of the NSA. https://soundcloud.com/madiha-1/stud...ion-the-nsa-at

[Hexen]

Bourgeoisie institutions spying on the productive classes is really nothing new. Of course in this case though regarding the entire "War on Terror" and of course the main targets are, it's really nothing more than sadistic racism on their part.