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Are the Brazilian people primed for an uprising?
Brazil has one of the world's largest economies and the largest in South America. Their per capita GDP by PPP is incredibly low for such a large economy, and poverty creates an atmosphere where violence is very prominent. While Brazil's infrastructure is in shambles, the government is squandering money on stadiums for the FIFA World Cup next year. The world doesn't need another Tlatelolco Massacre, but I definitely see some large protests against the Cup tournament. With what's been happening in Turkey, etc., are the Brazilian pessoas ready to stand up? If anyone has more details, please let me know.
That's interesting. I don't know much about the situation in Brazil. I'll sniff around and be back later.
Society does not consist of individuals but expresses the sum of interrelations, the relations within which these individuals stand. ~ Karl Marx
formerly Triceramarx
The country-wide protests/riots started because of a raise in the bus fare. Some cities such as Goiânia barred the raise. Now it is escalating in São Paulo (where the police is being less than friendly, as usual) with an aggravating: both the Governor and the Mayor, members respectively of the sworn enemies PSDB (Party of Brazilian Social Democracy, don't let the name fool you) and of PT (Workers' Party, again just the name), are against what they call vandalism and chaos. Rio and other cities are starting as well.
On the other hand, there are these Popular Committees of the Cup (Comitês Populares da Copa) formed by the population in which parties and militants in general participate. Anything Cup related (expulsion of the population who live nearby the stadiums, a law, not yet enacted, that classifies as terrorism any protest during the Cup, etc etc). Don't know much about them.
It is said that the protest transcended the mere raises and some protesters surely are trying to 'turn Brazil into Turkey' ('Acabou o amor, isso aqui vai virar a Turquia!', some chant). Nevertheless the thousands out in the streets every two days, people don't seem to be prime for an uprising. The main movement behind the protests is the MPL (Movimento Passe Livre, something like Free Pass Movement) with the participation of parties, anarchists (who actually are a majority in the MPL), regular students and workers.
Even though police is being brutal as shit (even journalists from bourgeois newspapers were beaten by 8 cops at a time, arrested and one was hit by a rubber bullet in the eye; he is most likely losing his sight), there is no uprising without the working class. I mean, the majority is formed by uni students, high school students and young workers. The bulk of the working class, however, don't seem to be out there. On the contrary, the country's biggest union is controlled by the federal government.
I actually hope there is no uprising, for the working class lacks organization to handle such a big task.
But what do I know? Things may change quick, and 'there are weeks when decades happen'.
In case you are interested in any videos...
They're chanting "No violence!" to the police. Yeah, that worked.
Pig breaks the glass of his own car to blame you know who
Reporter being beaten.
Longer video
This fucking genius right here. I love him, whoever he is.
Yeah, like I knew how to post videos. If some mod could put that on spoilers, it would be better, I guess.
A 2009 poll indicating the social views of the Brazilian urban population:
These polls are obviously flawed as the definitions of capitalism and free markets widely differ. If 43% of the French population really believed capitalism was fatally flawed we would assume this to be reflected in elections, but the far-left Left Front merely received 11% of the votes, and the Workers' Struggle and the New Anticapitalist Party an additional 1% or so. However, they are still useful insofar to get a grip of the social views of a population. This poll indicates that Turkey is a very right-wing society and a leftist let alone socialist revolt is unlikely.
pew pew pew
After the Turkey uprising, it's definitely possible. The difference is that the Brazilian government would probably recognize the possibility of a greater social explosion and respond by giving concessions, whereas Erdogan still seems to think most of Turkey will come out to support him someday, and refuses anything to the protesters.
One of the slogans during riots apperently was "peace is over, Istanbul is here"
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least We shall be free
Polls like this are notoriously meaningless (see: majority of US youth have a positive view of socialism), and the polls in Turkey and India were likely skewed toward the upper classes.
Well, we are in the midst of a deep and worldwide crisis of capital, so any conjuncture is fluid; so any attempt to predict anything in the long term is bogus. And Brazil is a capitalist society, so the basic requisite for a socialist revolution is evidently fulfilled.
But generalities apart, it doesn't look as something that will happen immediately, or as a consequence of the protests against bus ticket rising, or their suppressing by the police. Much less from protests against football tournaments.
The Brazilian police, like in the United States, are state-level corporations; there is a Federal Police, but it is not normally used in repression against street demonstrations. The immediate responsible for police actions, consequently, are the state governors, not the federal government. Bus ticket fares are usually municipal responsibilities. This precludes protests against bus ticket fares from being directly directed against federal government (and the fact that some of the government parties, including the President's party, take active part in those protests, makes that even more difficult). Similarly, it is difficult to pin the police brutality in São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro into the federal government's responsibility (again, moreso because the violence is going to be condemned in strong terms by the PT, and perhaps even by federal government).
The protests against the Cup are of a different nature, and are obviously directed against Dilma and the PT; but while there certainly are legitimate popular movements that take part on them, they seem to respond to a quite un-popular logic: that of austerity and spending cuts.
What creates a contorted situation is that while evidently the government spending on the football championships are dictated by a logic of stimulus of economic activity, the prices of tickets for the games are prohibitive for most Brazilians - especially for those who support the federal government and vote for the PT. (This explains why Dilma was booed during Brazil x Japan: among those who could pay the extorsive ticke prices, opposition supporters are certainly the majority...) This quid-pro-quo makes possible to frame austerity-ism in populist terms.
But, when things boil down, the protests against bus fares and for free tickets for students match the general disposition, both in population and government, in favour of more State intervention in economy, while the protests against the Cup run in the directly opposite way. This is the reason it is extremely unlikely they can find any common ground beyond a common rage against police violence.
(Two minor quibblings: I don't think the Brazilian infrastructure is "in shambles" (and to the extent it is, it is mostly an inheritance of previous governments), and the translation of "Brazilian people" would be "povo brasileiro", not "pessoas brasileiras"...)
Luís Henrique
Last edited by Luís Henrique; 16th June 2013 at 13:39.
I would rather say that indicates that Turkey is a very State-dominated society, and so people see its problems as a consequence of State omnipresence rather than as a consequence of markets and inequality.
Luís Henrique
Which puts the bourgeois press in direct collision against their beloved São Paulo government.
He is a she, and her eye seems to be out of danger now.
Since it is a movement for free bus tickets for students, it is quite natural that students are going to be the bulk of it.
But it is false to say that Brazil's biggest union (CUT) is "controlled by the federal government". It is controlled by its base, which elects the directive boards in democratic congresses. Yes, as of now, the CUT's directive boards are more or less aligned with the federal government, but there is no "control" at all; should the next congress elect a different direction, or even the present direction get disgruntled with the federal government, there is no way the government can force the CUT to support it.
Luís Henrique
Last edited by Luís Henrique; 16th June 2013 at 14:07.
Lol, you what?
The protests are very very valid: their country is turning into an über tourist trap with shitty transport, shitty quality of life and absurd inflated prices for everything. It's time to shrug all this brazilian passivity and actually stand for something instead of soccer or carnival.
Fuck the working class.
I- as someone who can read a bit of portuguese- am following these protests from close and I'm very happy they are happening. I only think they should be more organized, i.e. why the protest in Rio was in the center of the city, a commercial region completely far from the "centers of power"? Why not in front of Guanabara palace, the governor's seat? Why not in Cidade Nova, the municipal building? Why people won't simply march in Gávea to the mayor's house?
Where did I say the protests were not valid? Where did I say I'm against the protests? Where did I say anything different from what you just sad?
"Brazilian passivity", as though Brazilians had a natural tendency of being passive. Would it be our genetics? There is no passiveness, class struggle has its ups and downs.
...?
So am I.
As opposed to São Paulo, where they aimed to stop the city's major avenue.
You just confirmed my point: the working class is not ready to take a major step such as an uprising.
You got it completely wrong. The movement is not for "free bus tickets for students", it's for free bus fare for all.
It still has serious limitations and I'm fairly critical of it, but I feel it still can be supported on a class basis, because it's against an attack on the living standards of workers.
Even if one, as myself doesn't support or agrees with the organization leading it.
By the way, another union, CSP-Conlutas, whose bigger wing is from the morenist PSTU, announced that metalworkers and other categories will be joining the next protest. Let's see how that turns out.
This is what you implied and it's the same shallow criticism many people direct at socialist protests. "Oh, they are just jobless, middle class students, it's nothing relevant..."
Where the fuck enters class struggle in this situation? People are not trying to overthrow the country leadership or stuff like that, they're just voicing their discontent. I bet that even some of them are by definition "rightists" (against the main dominant labor and social democratic political scene of Brazil) and should enjoy the same support as the rest of protesters.
Blame it on genetics, culture or in a 3 centuries old catholic ingrained mentality; brazilians are indeed passive. A german would go crazy in a month in Brazil, because it's not normal to live in a state with a bigger population than Canada (São Paulo) or Netherlands (Rio de Janeiro), yet nothing works, you wait 1 hour for the bus to a completely unreachable place, you live side by side with absurd slums, pay absurd taxes... And yet brazilians doesn't care, they just accommodate themselves and live their lifes.
I'm actually amazed that people are protesting against the bus.
Lol, you're just forcing class struggle in a completely out of place context. What you mean by uprising? I've spoken with countless, countless brazilians in my life, and not even one of the them enjoyed the idea of hosting the world coup and olympics. At least until now the protests are for expressing such opinions.
It's amazing to read how the president thinks the country is being targeted by foreign "terrorism".
She doesn't even think the protests are reasonable and native...
http://g1.globo.com/politica/noticia...formativo.html
She isn't even talking about that.
Luís Henrique
I really don't know what is going on here...
Are you mad? Many of them are indeed middle-class students, jobless young people and etc. Now, where on Earth have I said that it doesn't matter? Just so you know (that is, if you don't know already) there were people from Alphaville (upper strata of the petite-bourgeoisie) to Pirituba (fucking poor, violent and peripheral).
On the contrary, mate, I find it is goddamn marvelous that thousands of young people are out on the streets.
Er... When students and workers confront the fare raise, when they confront the 'public' transport companies that make millions and millions because of something that will harm mainly the working class, i.e., they fight for the interests of the working class against the capitalists, it is class struggle.
The claims may be close (if they have not yet) to transcend the mere raise. Imagine if they start to claim the petrol (remember 'O petróleo é nosso' or, more recently, 'O petróleo tem que ser nosso'?). But that is just speculation.
An all-out civil war is not the only way class-struggle manifests.
Some of them are indeed rightists. They're, ironically, siding with the proletariat, whom, unfortunately, is not out there yet.
No, that makes no sense whatsoever. The 'passive' Brazilian working class not 30 years ago starred massive strikes, which ended up creating PT. Last year, federal universities and institutes were on strike for months, a thing we had not seen in a long while. Workers protest on Northern Brazil, and Northeastern Brazil all the time (remeber Jirau and Belo Monte?). Landless' Workers Movement is out there, despite mistakes and all, since the 80s.
The passivity is a complete myth.
You shouldn't. MPL exists for almost a decade now.
I think here is where we're misunderstanding each other. I mean the proletariat threatening bourgeois hegemony, the bourgeois power.
Many people, me included, were discontent with that too, because we all saw what was about to come. I love football, btw.
Last edited by Kalinin's Facial Hair; 16th June 2013 at 18:59.
Enough with this racist absurd.
I think you are mystified by the supposed efficiency of urban services elsewhere. Sure, there are places where they are more efficient than in Brazil, but the difference is of degree, not of nature.
Shockingly, some of us don't live side by side with slums - some of us live in slums.
We evidently care, which is the reason that we regularly set buses on fire:
https://www.google.com.br/search?q=o...ih=477#imgrc=_
Certainy many, probably most, of us enjoy the idea. You may argue that this is out of disinformation, or foolishness, or whatever, but most people here like soccer, so it is natural that many support the idea of having the world cup here.
Luís Henrique
