Socialism is inevitable? (Poll)

[Akshay!]

Do you think socialism is inevitable?

I can imagine several alternate futures so obviously I don't believe in this theory but those who do, please explain why.

[Craig_J]

I think it is inevitable. Eventually people have to realise that, contrary to what they're told, the money they make isn't actually what they earn. What they earn is mostly what is used to pump up the profit of the bourgeosie. Eventually people have to come to terms with that and start to realise how simple capitalist economics work. People have to see that they're being exploited and that their contributions could be towards society (which is also something they're falsley told their contributions go towards in modern capitalist society) rather than for the fat cats at the top of the pile who have to make no effort in order to produce more unjustified wealth.

However, the only way this can ever happen is through serious conciousness raising. It seems like society has been dumbed (sp?) down so much that they just go out work, spend, die. That's where the role of current socialists come in to make sure the inevitable does happen and that it happens as soon as possible.

Also, I don't think anyone on this forum would say it's impossible, not even the most pessimistic of us! Would beat any point in being on here or holding any leftist beliefs!

[Skyhilist]

Lol hopefully nobody votes impossible otherwise why are we even here?

[Le Libérer]

Lol hopefully nobody votes impossible otherwise why are we even here?

Impossible is not an option!

[V.Vendetta]

No, its not inevitable. However I would argue that we will either have libertarian socialism or the not-too-distant ruin of civilization; I can't see a third option.

Ultimately people make their own history; if the workers of the world don't rise up and overthrow the ruling class, and start managing our own affairs freely, then we won't see socialism. It's up to all of us collectively, our goal is in no way inevitable.

[tuwix]

Do you think socialism is inevitable?

I can imagine several alternate futures so obviously I don't believe in this theory but those who do, please explain why.

I think that communism is inevitable.
Everything pursue an equilibrium. Maintaince of such inequality is imposible in longer period of time. This inequality is main reason of the class struggle.
Besides civilisation being stopped in its development by capitalism is evolving to a state when scarcity will disappear. Then money an private property will become obsolete.
But earlier tha capitalism will be shaken by ongoing class struggle and finally it will collapse.

[Manar]

Are we Christians? Is a Messiah inevitably going to descend from heaven and usher in an eternal Kingdom of Communism? Communism is only as inevitable as communists make it.

[Bardo]

I'd say socialism is inevitable. There will come a time where capitalism is no longer an option even for capitalists. As the developing world catches up with the developed world, extremely cheap labor to exploit will become rarer and rarer and automation will start replacing more and more human labor anyway. Capitalism simply cannot function with the majority of the population of a society unemployed and unable to consume it's products. Eventually, the contradictions within capitalism itself will tear it down if the workers don't destroy it first.

It's inevitable.

[Rocky Rococo]

What is inevitable is what a critical mass of people are willing to fight for, to sacrifice for, to do whatever it takes to make happen. There are very few places in the world at present where such a mass exists for socialism. Helping to create that mass, wherever we may be, that is our task.

[Lokomotive293]

No, unfortunately not at all. You all know the saying "socialism or barbarism", and I have the feeling we're getting ever closer to the latter. Maybe that's just my apocalyptic state of mind, but if you think of how weak we are, and how strong the enemy (We only exist because they don't care enough to destroy us), and how we don't have all the time we want (think of the environment, the threat of nuclear war, etc.), I don't know if we can win again, or if we had our chance and that was it.

But, yeah, Che Guevara said: Let us be realistic, let us try the impossible

[Jimmie Higgins]

My view is socialism or barbarism. Which means either people will take control or there will be barbarism; this second option would inclde capitalism overcoming working class challenges but hanging on long enough to produce collapse from it's own problems (environmental destruction, war, etc).

[Blake's Baby]

I think this is barbarism.

Luckily, I think the door of the potential for socialism isn't shut yet, 'socialism or barbarism' still applies. But inevitable? No; as several people have said in different ways, socialist society still has to be worked for. It might not happen. Capitlism may be a wreck, but the working class still needs to organise to put it out of our misery. Universal destruction may of course occur first.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Capitalism is moribund; it can no longer develop the productive forces, nor can it contain the contradictory forces it has set in motion. Socialism is inevitable, unless of course something wipes us hairless apes out. And yes, of course socialism will not spontaneously happen, and it needs to be struggled for, but this struggle is also part of the process of the dissolution of capitalism and it, too, is inevitable.

[Akshay!]

Capitalism is moribund; it can no longer develop the productive forces, nor can it contain the contradictory forces it has set in motion. Socialism is inevitable, unless of course something wipes us hairless apes out. And yes, of course socialism will not spontaneously happen, and it needs to be struggled for, but this struggle is also part of the process of the dissolution of capitalism and it, too, is inevitable.

What about the possibility that there's a nuclear war and almost everything is wiped out except some places where capitalists continue to control and exploit the rest of the population? Or a situation in which all countries become kinda like Sweden and everytime the revolution happens, it is defeated? Or if, in reaction to revolutions the capitalists support fascism and the whole world becomes fascist and every communist is murdered and the fascist make sure that none of the people are able to even Think of anything like communism through some advanced technique of thought control which hasn't been invented yet? Or something related to global warming? I could list several other possibilities but my question is - Aren't several other futures possible? Why is it "inevitable"? And btw, why is the struggle that you mentioned, inevitable?

[hatzel]

Are we Christians? Is a Messiah inevitably going to descend from heaven and usher in an eternal Kingdom of Communism?

Dude with a Hezbollah avatar [EDIT: well it was the Hezbollah flag when I made this post, but the times they are a-changing, clearly] (a logo which just so happens to quote the Qur'an in stating that 'the party of Allah' will inevitably be triumphant) seriously just used the 'sometimes you guys are too much like some kind of religious thing or something'-argument, shit just got real up in this thread...

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

What about the possibility that there's a nuclear war and almost everything is wiped out except some places where capitalists continue to control and exploit the rest of the population? Or a situation in which all countries become kinda like Sweden and everytime the revolution happens, it is defeated? Or if, in reaction to revolutions the capitalists support fascism and the whole world becomes fascist and every communist is murdered and the fascist make sure that none of the people are able to even Think of anything like communism through some advanced technique of thought control which hasn't been invented yet? Or something related to global warming? I could list several other possibilities but my question is - Aren't several other futures possible? Why is it "inevitable"? And btw, why is the struggle that you mentioned, inevitable?

The struggle for socialism is inevitable because an individual's consciousness is in the main determined by their social being. As long as the proletariat exists, there will exist socialist tendencies, though they might be confused, especially if there exists no organised communist movement. Perhaps some sort of "mind control" would negate that, but I am not sure the concept makes much sense. It isn't at all clear how one could filter thoughts like that, especially given how much our mental life is distributed and even external.

Anyway, let us suppose that some sort of catastrophe happens. What then? If it has wiped out humanity, then obviously, there will be no socialism. But that's besides the point. It goes outside the parameters of the question.

If humanity survives in some form, in a capitalist society, well, one of the most important results of Marx's investigations of capitalist society is how unstable it is. After the forces of production have developed to a specific degree in the imperial centres, capitalism can't escape the cycle of crises etc. etc. Sweden is sometimes held up as an example of stable capitalism, but it too has been forced to institute austerity measures, and the recent riots in the country show just how much this supposed liberal utopia is unstable.

[Fourth Internationalist]

Likely - history is progressive, it moves forwards; it always has and it always will.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

Likely - history is progressive, it moves forwards; it always has and it always will.

I'd think the events of the twentieth century does away with that notion. History is not inherently progressive. Without human agency, the abstraction we know as "history" would not even be possible. As Marx once observed:

History does nothing, it ‘possesses no immense wealth’, it ‘wages no battles’. It is man, real, living man who does all that, who possesses and fights; ‘history’ is not, as it were, a person apart, using man as a means to achieve its own aims; history is nothing but the activity of man pursuing his aims.

Under the weight of capitalism's own contradictions, only revolutionary crises are inevitable. The actual toppling of the capitalist system is a different matter; without class-conscious workers to carry this out, it is likely that we will stay where we are.

[Rafiq]

Dude with a Hezbollah avatar (a logo which just so happens to quote the Qur'an in stating that 'the party of Allah' will inevitably be triumphant) seriously just used the 'sometimes you guys are too much like some kind of religious thing or something'-argument, shit just got real up in this thread...

I still can't get my head around why he's allowed to run amok around the forum spouting about his bullshit. Islamists are part of the three horsemen of the bourgeois- decadent apocalypse, alongside ultra nationalist setiment (europe) and american libertarianism. Not to mention the undeniable fact of the group's antisemitism and reactionary conservativism.

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[Petrol Bomb]

Who the hell voted impossible!?