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what should a socialist work?
Since I believe most of us live in capitalist countries, I ask of you: what do you do for a living? what should I do for a living("I" in this case being a law student for my sins)? I mean, what can a socialist(or communist, either way) actually work without encouraging the capitalist state in which he lives?
I think this is the best place to post this one because it's essentially putting ideas to practice. Moderators should feel free to move it to another section if I'm wrong.
Unfortunately you can't really "drop out" of capitalist society. A socialist can simply do the best they can (within reason) to survive. Obviously a socialist shouldn't become a cop or anything, but really whatever you choose to do you're still part of the capitalist system.
I'd kind of like to be a teacher myself, inspire kids to be as interested in maths as I am. I think it would be socially useful so I'd at least feel like I was doing something more worthwhile than making someone else rich.
"Her development, her freedom, her independence must come from and through herself. First, by asserting herself as a personality, and not as a sex commodity. Second, by refusing the right to anyone over her body; by refusing to bear children unless she wants them; by refusing to become a servant to God, the State, society, the husband, the family, etc. ... by freeing herself from the fear of public opinion and public condemnation. Only that, and not the ballot, will set woman free, will make her a force hitherto unknown in the world, a force for real love, for peace, for harmony; a force of divine fire, of life-giving; a creator of free men and women."~ Emma Goldman
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I'm a sociology student. I don't have any particular job or career I'm hoping to follow, I just love the field I'm studying.
Unfortunately, as Quail pointed out, anything you do you will be doing within the constructs of capitalist society, whether you're a teacher or a baker, an accountant or a plumber.
The lifestylism in choosing a "more socialist" or "less capitalist" job doesn't really matter. I'd say don't become a venture capitalist or the owner of a chain of franchises :P
"Phil Spector is haunting Europe." - Karl Marx
A socialist should find a job the same way any other person would: by trying to get a good balance of "something I enjoy" and "something that will pay my rent".
I currently work two jobs, one at a restaurant and one as a freelance sound editor. I'm still in college for another 6 months or so, but hopefully once I graduate I'll have built up enough contacts/credibility to support myself full time as a sound designer. Basically just try to find something you like and get fulfillment out of and hope that it pays enough, that's really the best one can hope for.
You seem neat, but...
They divide us by our color, they divide us by our tongue,
They divide us men and women, they divide us old and young,
But they'll tremble at our voices when they hear these verses sung,
For the Union makes us strong!
I think it's important to get on living without worrying about having anti-capitalist purity.
Any real change implies the breakup of the world as one has always known it, the loss of all that gave one an identity, the end of safety. And at such a moment, unable to see and not daring to imagine what the future will now bring forth, one clings to what one knew, or dreamed that one possessed. Yet, it is only when a man is able, without bitterness or self-pity, to surrender a dream he has long possessed that he is set free - he has set himself free - for higher dreams, for greater privileges.”
-James Baldwin
"We change ideas like neckties."
- E.M. Cioran
I agree with the general points made by Fawkes and LGF so I just enjoy being unemployed, having my rent paid and studying independently.
I think the answer someone gives to this is based on their political perspectives and orientation actually.
Ideally it would be the case, for socialists as for ordinary people as Fawkes says, to find a balance between something you enjoy and what pays the bills. Or between something that you feel you're making a difference in - social care, teaching etc - and bills.
But there is also a question about how you see society developing, what is the role of socialists, what is your own roll, what are the key sectors of society. In that sense, working in something that you enjoy might be personally enriching but working as a docker is far better in a political sense. And can be just as personally enriching even if a sacrifice needs to be made. And honestly, if you're not making some sort of a sacrifice as a socialist, you're probably not much of one.
There were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror... --- Mark Twain
That's kind of where I'm coming from. I mean, I can't live a plentiful life out of wage slavery and oppressing the working class and feel good about myself. And, frankly, more and more jobs seem to be oppressive in some way or another, even teaching, as it generally includes at least some indoctrination(in the humanities, I mean).
As a side point because few folks mentioned being students. Students are workers too. Capitalism has outsourced training and education to the state (public schools/universities) and, increasingly to the individual, through private institutions.
The training and education students receive is essential for increased production and it is something that corporations cannot pay for.
Secondly, students are actually producing, especially graduate students, through teaching as adjuncts or through research.
I understand the original question to be, "Where is the most strategic place for radicals to work?" I don't think there is a clear answer. There are key places of production (Foxcon), distribution (ports), and consumption (Walmart), that should all be trenches of struggle.
The question you should ask yourself is, how can you agitate in the place you work? How can you build relationship with people and engage in struggle at your workplace where you are building power?
You can't learn to swim in a library.
But such a sacrifice doesn't have to be through your work life - you can engage politically or more directly socially too.
"What is necessary is to go beyond any false opposition of programme versus spontaneity. Communism is both the self-activity of the proletariat and the rigorous theoretical critique that expresses and anticipates it."
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"...Stalinism is eternally condemned to govern capital, and the ideological dynamics of Stalinism are tied to this peculiar type of capital management; it is locked within this framework, reproducing the logic of capitalism under the veil of communism. For this reason, Stalinism, and its various derivatives, cannot accurately be regarded as communist if we choose to define it in materialist terms." - Tim Cornelis
I would say something " proleterian ", but I also have to agree with what has been said - you cannot escape the system, so I feel it's way more important not to enslave people or get yourself enslaved, so definitely don't be a banker, and don't take no goddamn loans or credits. I'd rather live with my parents or some roommates than with a loan.
Personally I'd like to be a journalist, and generally devote my life to revolution as much as possible.
No, unfortunaely no matter what we do we're workin for capitalism. If you think about it even if you're kind hearted enough to be a full time voluntary worker you're just helping to fix what capitalism causes rather than treating the cause.
I've also noticed how clever the sytem has been designed. If you work under capitalism but you're a socalist everyone labels you 'HYPOCRITE!'.
If you don't work under a capitalist system and you're a socalist everyone labels you 'LAZY!' and assumes you want to be entitled to everything for free....
I'm doin A level politics, sociology and meida studies then in september I'll be at uni studying sociology.
I work as a casual worker behind the bar at Newmarket Racecourse. Unfortunately work is only on between april and october so the rest of the year I'm skint. Also, I broke my arm last year and because we don't get any EMA for going to college anymore, and as a casdual worker I couldn't claim sick pay, and my mother couldnt relly afford to fed me I had to go hungry quite a lot.... Only added to my resentment of capitalism even more...
Re: what should a socialist work?
Of course. I didn't mean to imply that it did. I meant more that if you're not willing to sacrifice the comforts of work if it is necessary then you're probably not much of a socialist.
There were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror... --- Mark Twain
Yeah, get the best deal you can for yourself - however that works out for you personally (balance of pleasantness - or at least minimal unpleasantness - and enough money to live... and more if you can swing it).
I've been working for about half my life now - mostly service work. I wouldn't turn down a cushy job at Google or something for moral reasons alone at all. There's nothing noble about wage work.
The real question that comes up, in my view, is could one's job be a site of struggle or mearly the money to help you then participate in struggle more easily with more free-time and resources. So, for example, if someone is a teacher, of course they will probably naturally want to be helpful in their job and try and help their students, but to see that induvidual professional work as a means of social change (as many teachers do with all sinceriy) is a dead-end in my opinion. They should teach to help their students induvidually, but the real site of struggle and the real way to ultimately help their students (and future students) would be to organize other teachers to try and gain more "work-site" (and district/state/so on) power and influence over the conditions of teaching/learning. If you can organize to resist "teaching to the test" or cutbacks in services or cutbacks on teachers, then there is a better chance of being able to give students more chances to actually learn. Not trying to fight for more worker-influence but just trying to, on your own, teach despite the system and the requirements made on teachers leads to a sort of self-sacrificing moralism (in this case teachers spending way more unpaid time, to actually accomplish "teaching" and doing right by their students) that doesn't challenge the trajectory of public education and becomes a losing battle which leads many teachers towards cynacism in regards to change and even students themselves.
The same can be applied for other work - especially professions. Capital P professions like being a lawyer probably don't have workplace organizing opportunities and so options would be going into "Labor Law" or something, but generally this would also not provide much ability to make much of a difference as an induvidual. Most likely someone who is Leftist and not independantly wealthy who goes into law, would just have to try and have their profession on the one hand and do what's required of it, and then on the other do community-type organizing. If they had some sucess, they could use their legal knowledge and skills to do some volunteer work in regards to movements and activists who are being repressed, but it would be hard to do that solely IMO - not to mention it would be a lot of work without much financial payoff.
Though this is undoubtably true I can't say it has ever bothered me, after all I am fairly lazy, also I do think that everyone should be entitled to the basic instruments of life (food, clothing, shelter) for free.1
As others have said, 'opting out' of the system itself is pretty hard to do without sacrificing a lot / going without. Occupation-wise, I know I'm not engaged in an industry that does anything to directly oppose or fight the system, I'm just making the wage to pay for what I and my family needs and wants.
Not sure what vocation, other than 'full-time revolutionary', would be the most suitable to a communist, maybe it can't exist so long as capitalism exists.
The only thing i can say is to not work in a role where your responsibility is to discipline the workforce as your work would be about undermining class struggle.
Yeah, probably not so much about what you do for a living as what you're doing to undermine labour discipline, organize isolated acts of rebellion into a common strategy, etc.
The life we have conferred upon these objects confronts us as something hostile and alien.
Formerly Virgin Molotov Cocktail (11/10/2004 - 21/08/2013)
Except don't be a cop.
You can't learn to swim in a library.
At the risk of sounding stupid I'll ask my question: is it hypocritical to have success in capitalism? If I make a lot of money in capitalism, counting anything from a doctor to a professional athlete, does that make any communist belief I have almost worthless?
I'm not however including bankers, business owners, or politicians. Nothing that is an enemy of socialism, just unrelated high paying professions.
