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You do realise that PAME is not a political organization but a unions front, right? And that its not supposed to consist of "revolutionary groups", but workers unions and syndicates.
Nobody claimed PAME was anti-revolutionary. What I did state was that PAME consists of mostly non-revolutionary groups and non political members. Which...if you would look up previous threads about the subject...is something you yourself admitted a year or so back.
YOU DID?! OMG and I m just standing there judging you?!?!?!
I take it all back, I m sorry. I truly am.
Well, you know, striking is not as important as buying fair trade chocolate, but I guess everyone will do what is capable of and nothing more.
KKE betrayed itself at the Civil War...
My dear, you are a true piece of art.
Continuation of behaviour:
- 1944 People's Front sign Varkiza treaty.
- 1945 KKE starts the armed struggle, some will call it "revolution".
- 2014 KKE embraices that revolution as the highest moment of class struggle in the history of Greece, and denounces PFs based on its experience.
Make love to Logic.
Yeap. Thats who Im talking about too.
And there I was thinking communist vanguard parties were there to organize, politicize and create class consciousness in the working class.
Now I remember Lenin stating the labour unions were instrumental to the revolution.
Well if you had asked what I had done this weekend....
Thats cute. How do we know, if they didnt act based on their workers identity, that these people were workers? Because.
And no, not every non related with their union worker is a fascist thug. Only those that bully immigrants and post videos on YT so they can brag about it.
You also do realise that PAME and KKE are not the same thing, right?
PAME is a unions front.
KKE is a communist party.
KKE supports PAME, but PAME is a front. And that it consists by many more people other than communists.
Let me guess: You spray painted 4 walls with (A)s.
[QUOTE]Yeap. Thats who Im talking about too.[QUOTE]
Oh so the English and Americans were trotskyists anarchists and left communists?Good to know
I hope for nothing,I fear nothing,I am free-Nikos Kazantzakis
PAME is a little more than something the KKE supports. PAME was founded on the initiative of the KKE back in 99....so basically 15 years to actually revolutionize the movement.
No actually I was fighting with some Nazi's.
Originally Posted by FSL
I missed this one.
On june 16th, days before the elections, the KKE released an official statement in which they rejected any form of cooperation with SYRIZA. Their argument was and is that Greece needs to leave the EU and adopt a national currency.
Since I am really tired about going back and forward over details about the KKE I'll explain to you what my most pressing problem is with the KKE.
The KKE, like so many marginalized communist factions of all tendencies, is thoroughly sectarian and suffers from political shortsightedness and a resulting tragic blindness to reality. It denounces each and every group and party which is not directly aligned with them as objectionable and non compatible. In doing so the KKE maintains it is the only alternative and their way is the only way. The KKE writes long polemics about how terribly wrong other leftwing and radical leftwing groups and parties are, rife with rhetoric and propaganda.
This amounts to nothing less than political isolationism and fragmenting and splintering revolutionary potential among the working class...which...lets face it...cares fuck all about communist tendencies and splits (of which we probably have more than the Catholic church by now..and at least they pretend to form a unified body).
So let me repeat that. A non politicized, non revolutionary worker (which makes up the largest part of the working class) doesn't care about who did what and when and why this was stupid because some guy decades ago wrote something in a book and why we now have to shun them. They do not care about theoretical purity no matter how right it is.
The average worker cares about their current position right now and whether or not they have a job, can pay the bills and can survive with their family. You know...important day to day stuff. And they worry about it today, tomorrow, next week.
So they do not care about some communique written on the 16th in which the largest revolutionary party currently active states that it doesn't really care about whether or not it presents a viable alternative in the near future. Just as long as it remains true to the letter of their ideals....they will eventually get there.
What the working class wants, and most important of all, needs...is a viable alternative to the current situation for the here and now and not the..."we will see when the time is right and we are big enough". It needs organisation, direction and most of all it needs to not be bothered with infighting, bickering and complete and utter sectarian non sense.
You see....the crisis is NOW. And an alternative needs to be presented NOW.
The KKE was (!!) sitting on a huge revolutionary potential in which they could have and should have taken a leadership position. They should have embraced individual initiatives (even though they weren't properly conforming with ML theory or even when they were not in a leadership position or even when they were apolitical). They should have reached out to other parties and factions in order to coordinate or attempt to coordinate actions. (and do NOT tell me they tried that...because you know it isn't true). In short..they should have been proactive. But in the last 15 years they haven't even managed to revolutionize their own union front.
Instead the KKE acted and acts like a diva who thinks they can outshine everybody. Their way or the highway. Not readying itself for mass action but instead fragmenting their efforts into individual actions...because...as they themselves say: we are in it for the long run.
Meanwhile that leaves most workers directionless in their emerging class consciousness....and thus a welcome prey for the far right. Let me make this clear: the far right ONLY stands a chance if they are NOT confronted by a unified radical left alternative. It also leaves the door wide open for parties which do pretend to have easy short term solutions.
Now I can only imagine the response of the KKE supporters here. "Yes but they support Obama" and "But they want to stay in the EU". Yes...and you had fuck all influence on their position because you rejected to have anything to do with them way before they even had electoral success.
In the meantime...you lost half your votes to them, half your members. And they managed to get 30% of the population behind them and you don't even manage to match half of what GD has.
You're done. Because of your indecision and inaction...and because you fragment your energy. You do not bring a viable short term alternative and you even directly reject the notion of alleviating some of the most pressing and urgent problems the working class faces because you want to remain "ideologically pure" and even go so far as to state that you do not give these pressing concerns as much priority as the eventual victory of YOUR tendency over capital.
That is my problem with the KKE.
And then of course there is the matter of several other important issues I mentioned.
A massive demonstration was held on Friday evening in Keratsini (Athens area) at the scene where leftist rapper Pavlos Fyssas was fatally stabbed last September by a Golden Dawn supporter. The rally was called in response to Golden Dawn's provocations and recent attack against the nearby "Resalto" squat. The protest was organized by the Keratsini-Drapetsona offices of SYRIZA, ANTARSYA and other leftist groups.
+ YouTube Video
What I do know is that you can't even name one. Not one. Because you're sad and you need to make up things to look... well not that sad I guess.
Nope, sorry. You're either wrong or lying again. I hope your source isn't some trotskyist webpage. Again.
They were the same before they had electoral success. Should communists blame themselves for bourgeois politicians? Are you that insane?
Every time a bourgeois politician proposes something reactionary, communists should beat themselves in the head because "they weren't there in the first place to influence his posistion"?
News for the supporters of the radical left, there are local elections coming up in Greece and the most important is the 13 big regions the country is divided in.
Syriza proposes Odysseas Voudouris for the region of Peloponnisos, a former leading pasok member who voted the memorandum and supported the current government in the parliament in 2012. He left pasok for the democratic left and then left them for Syriza. He has however said that he doesn't regret his decision to vote for the memorandum because the country needed to improve its public finances
And Syriza proposes Theodoros Karypidis for the region of Western Macedonia, a rather conservative area, a journalist who guess what, defended golden dawn after their arrests and claimed that the new name for the public tv station (nerit) is derived from jewish and its "antigreek" celebration of hanukkah (essentially saying that the government is secretely "serving the jewry").
He even says at a point that "now that the golden dawn is arrested, every problem will be solved... the hospitals will be open to the world, not just the smuggled-immigrants" (a derogatory term for foreigners).
So maybe the communists are to blame for not walking hand in hand with those despicable people and trying to stop them before they got to this point. Because I do sincerely hope you think of that as an extremely low point, don't you?
But then again you -and others- have claimed time after time that it's not just the KKE that are communists. There are many many others. One of whom is the poster above. Who has made the very brave decision of joining forces with Syriza but was apparently... unable to "influence their opinion" for some reason.
My explanation is that that's because he's not much better himself.
To repeat some things again. These opinions you have are not only wrong. They are downright destructive. You're a so-called anarchist, others might think of themselves as revolutionary communists or whatever, and what you're all proposing is whatever it is the CPUSA does in the US, the CPF does in France. Ie nothing.
Playing third wheel to downright reactionaries because they might increase public spending by 0.5% or they might increase the minimum wage by 1.0%. After all, we do need a viable alternative now, don't we? To hell with communism and to hell with freedom.
If you could by any stretch of the imagination be considered comrades, if you could at least claim you hold the same aims and goals as us, then we might be wrong to disassociate ourselves from you.
But you are not comrades and you certainly don't have the same goals as us. So you can all happily just go dive into your swamp and allow us to be as "sectarian" as we want.
...We shall never recognise equality with the peasant profiteer, just as we do not recognise “equality” between the exploiter and the exploited, between the sated and the hungry, nor the “freedom” for the former to rob the latter. And those educated people who refuse to recognise this difference we shall treat as whiteguards, even though they may call themselves democrats, socialists, internationalists, Kautskys, Chernovs, or Martovs.
V.I. Lenin
I'm going to try and make things clear.
It's TRUE that SYRIZA's reformist leadership proposed those two.
However, SYRIZA's members all over the country reacted to these outrageous proposals, because not only they were about people that have nothing to do with SYRIZA (and generally the Left), but mostly because they were proposed without asking SYRIZA's local organisations first. The Left Platform requested the abortion of their candidacy with SYRIZA. It's only a matter of time before the leadership satisfy this demand.
This move however, must not surprise anyone. On the contrary, it must alert every revolutionary. The reformist leadership wants to find ways of dealing with the left Opposition within SYRIZA, because it's the one that aims to retain SYRIZA's radical characteristics, that appealed to the Greek working class.
The Political Secretariat of SYRIZA, in its meeting earlier today, has decided to withdraw Karypidis' candidacy.
Ow...this is funny...because according to a poll done by JTA (you know...Jewish organisation) in the late 80's it was established that anti-semitism and jewish conspiracy is so widespread in Greece that 55% of PASOK members; 52% of KKE members and 44% of KKE interior members had a deep mistrust of Jews and were openly anti-semitic. And of course we have the 2002 rather silly notion expressed by several KKE officials that 911 was a Jewish plot. (Rizospastis august) 2002. And then we have Gatzis who praised a right wing anti semetic racist as being a very courageous politician.
So...you were saying??
O yes....I forgot. Any criticism of the KKE is automatically a lie or a distortion.
you can be sectarian all you want. Just do not pretend to be working to any actual revolutionary conscious in the working class. The KKE hasn't been doing that since the late 40's
The majority of SYRIZA's Prefectural Committee of Messinia has voted in favor of the withdrawal of Voudouris' candidacy.
Also there's been a document signed by several SYRIZA's Youth organisations in the Peloponnese (from Kalamata, Argos, Tripoli, Corinth, Xylokastro and Sparta) that press the leadership to find another candidate and ask other Prefectural Committees across the country to vote for Voudouris' withdrawal.
Syriza's local organization supported Karypidis' campaign in a vote that ended 9-3 in his favour. You somehow missed that. And the local organization was overruled by the leadership.
Syriza's local organizations in Peloponnisos have been asking for Voudouris' candidacy to be withdrawn. And they are also overruled by the leadership.
So we have a final result of 0/2 when it comes to party democracy as it's always the leadership deciding and discarding the opinions of the local organizations and we also have the very very weird phenomenon where syriza "cadres" while opposing the former Pasok member, Voudouris, are voting in favour of an antisemite, racist conspiracy loon.
Now how is that possible?...
My guess is that local organizations in both cases voted based solely on whether they thought the candidate would win (with a win they are the most likely to be rewarded with public money and loval government positions). That's why the supported the racist and disowned the pasok one.
The leadership on the other hand voted based on its long terms relationships with certain sections of capital.
The capital formerly close to pasok, for example the industrialists' union (the head of which just exhanged some pleasantries with Tsipras in a press event), is a much more valuable ally to Syriza's leadership.
Now, kokkino tsakali, why is it that you failed to mention that a syriza's local organization voted in favour of Karypidis?
And why is it that you seem to be utterly failing in any effort to keep syriza's leadership from drifting further and further to the right?
Are they -gasp!- traitors to the cause?
...We shall never recognise equality with the peasant profiteer, just as we do not recognise “equality” between the exploiter and the exploited, between the sated and the hungry, nor the “freedom” for the former to rob the latter. And those educated people who refuse to recognise this difference we shall treat as whiteguards, even though they may call themselves democrats, socialists, internationalists, Kautskys, Chernovs, or Martovs.
V.I. Lenin
So... today People's Allience did:
1. Demonstration on the issue of Health in Athens from PAME.
2. KNE did a demostration like this one, only this time in Thesaloniki.
3. The farmers struggle continues.
4.Union strike in Forthnet(internet)-Netmed(cable TV) corp.
5. Taxi drivers mobilisation.
6. MAS students announced a text against the imperialist attack of EU on Central African Republic.
7. Strike and demonstration on the super market chain "Arvanitidis".
8. Second wave of solidarity moves to the earthquake hited islanders of Keffalonia.
Thats pretty much more than we see in Revleft in a month, isnt it?
Maybe more doesn't mean better maybe at this point it's simply stasis.
"whatever they might make would never be the same as that world of dark streets and bright dreams"
http://youtu.be/g-PwIDYbDqI
I'm just going to have another laugh at Syriza supporters with the opportunity presented to me by their "stance" on Ukraine.
So this article appeared on Syriza's paper, Avgi: http://www.avgi.gr/article/2007339/p...-tin-oukrania-
It's title is "What kind of spring for Ukraine". It speaks of an "ukrainian revolution" that's the first to violently overthrow a corrupt post-communist regime. It describes the ukrainian people as basically in favour of EU participation saying that't not a devisive issue at all for the population. And it considers the neonazis appearing at the forefront of the demonstrations-turned-revolution something to be expected with the lack of any real left organizations and all.
And at the same time, articles are appearing on Iskra, a website for the party's left platform (iskra was the name of an early pre-revolutionary version of Pravda), that solely consist of salivating at the possibility of a russian intervention, such as this one:
http://www.iskra.gr/index.php?option...opi&Itemid=172
The title reads:
"Ukraine under the US heel and at the mercy of neonazis. Russia in a dilemma.
Filthy threats from the US-NATO-EU towards Russia"
Add to these, previous statements from the party's head regarding the prospects of US-Greece relationships at the event of a syriza's win in elections, that "Not all governments are imperialistic" referring to Obama of course.
And tell me that this isn't a bunch of frauds.
...We shall never recognise equality with the peasant profiteer, just as we do not recognise “equality” between the exploiter and the exploited, between the sated and the hungry, nor the “freedom” for the former to rob the latter. And those educated people who refuse to recognise this difference we shall treat as whiteguards, even though they may call themselves democrats, socialists, internationalists, Kautskys, Chernovs, or Martovs.
V.I. Lenin
