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Greek comrades,I remember reading an article about a neighborhood in Athens which is under Anarchist control,can you enlighten me about this?
Virtue without which terror is fatal, terror without which virtue is impotent. Robespierre
i wouldnt say its "under anarchist control" as the cops reguarly make incursions to show their strength but exarcheia is an anrachist stronghold and i assume the neighborhood you are refering too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exarcheia
here an article about the social significance of the area: http://roarmag.org/2011/07/exarchia-...of-resistance/
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least We shall be free
trough Facebook...
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least We shall be free
Greece is the real battlefield right now. Be strong Comrades.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
When the rich die, capitalists panic. When the poor die, it's a statistic.
http://www.euro.who.int/__data/asset...report-Eng.pdf
Suicides rose by 17% between 2007 and 2009 and to 25% in 2010. The Minister of Health reported a further 40% rise in the first half of 2011 compared with the same period in 2010. Suicide attempts have also increased, particularly among people reporting economic distress.
Homicide and theft rates have doubled.
HIV rates and heroin use have risen significantly, with about half of new HIV infections being self-inflicted to enable people to receive benefits of €700 per month and faster admission on to drugsubstitution programmes.
Prostitution has also risen, probably as a response to economic hardship.
Health care access has declined as hospital budgets have been cut by about 40% and it is estimated that 26 000 public health workers (9100 doctors) will lose their jobs.
Further cuts are expected as a result of recent negotiations with the IMF and European Central Bank.
See also: http://reddit.com/r/socialism http://www.reddit.com/r/anarchistnews http://reddit.com/r/anarchism
The only slaves who are happy, are the crazy ones.
Video - Cops, cars on fire as protesters throw Molotov cocktails in Athens
How strange. I see so many posts about PAME and its accomplishments, yet I don't even see a reference about the struggle of the university administrators against the layoffs, who were on strike for 4 months. I hope this has nothing to do with MAS's (KKE's university students' front) stance concerning the strike (which was against the strike).
>Anarchist
>Control
can you enlighten me about this?
He probably meant more of being liberated from the authorities. That is obviously not the case however, as it was stated that the police often come in there just to flaunt their power every now and then
>Anarchist
>Control
can you enlighten me about this?
I wasn't sure where to post this and I'm not also sure if it has already been posted, so do whatever you want
Hristodoulos Xiros member of 17th of November is now out of prison and he says that he will do whatever he can to prevent banks, capitalists and politicians from destroying the lives of the people. He calls for help from all the comrades "that still have the flame inside of them" and he says that we should fight all the sidekicks of the system (policemen etc). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzQjm-4XJKE
Sorry but I can't translate the whole thing, but this is the first video he publishes after his break and even though he might not be the best at talking, his words are very strong and they influenced... some of my friends not me.
Last but not least he calls for union of the left (guevarists mostly I suppose) and he says that" we don't have the luxury to disagree, we have a war, and you don't chit chat when you have a war, you fight."
When is shit going to hit the fan in Greece?I wasn't sure where to post this and I'm not also sure if it has already been posted, so do whatever you want
Hristodoulos Xiros member of 17th of November is now out of prison and he says that he will do whatever he can to prevent banks, capitalists and politicians from destroying the lives of the people. He calls for help from all the comrades "that still have the flame inside of them" and he says that we should fight all the sidekicks of the system (policemen etc). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzQjm-4XJKE
Sorry but I can't translate the whole thing, but this is the first video he publishes after his break and even though he might not be the best at talking, his words are very strong and they influenced... some of my friends not me
Last but not least he calls for union of the left (guevarists mostly I suppose) and he says that" we don't have the luxury to disagree, we have a war, and you don't chit chat when you have a war, you fight."
On the 25th about 80 GD nazis showed up in Keratsini and took down the banner that was hung on the spot that P.Fyssas was murdered. Following that, they attacked the anarchist self-organised space "Resalto". After their failed attempts to invade the space, they caused damages by throwing bricks, most of which were thrown in nearby houses.
Later, an antifascist rally was held in Keratsini.
Here's the video that depicts the attack and the antifascist demonstration that took place.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1a...ogames?start=1
The last time I posted in this thread was 23rd of July 2013. We are now...two pages further and at exactly the same political point where we left off.
Which means the revolutionary left still fails to make any substantial political gains and...strangely enough... the KKE has not yet managed to capitalize on the worsening economic situation. GD is still twice as large as KKE.
Revolutionary unity has failed to emerge and KKE still maintains a position that everybody but they themselves are capitalist stooges and police infiltrators.
So....nothing much has changed.
Of course things have changed, they are much much worse movement-wise.
Why? Because the larger part of the revolutionary left is trying to appeal to investors, is praising Obama, is doing its best to save the EU, it rejects the notion of class debt etc etc
Is it strange then that the larger part of the revolutionary left is incapable of the slightest mobilization, of one protest, of even one strike organized by them?
And the thing is that many people, as you are evidently doing now, prefer all that, (even call it revolutionary themselves but maybe with a splash of reason)because they still prefer capitalism and because they still think that a better kind of capitalism will somehow come and praise the lord for that time.
Now, what can happen when so many people think Obama and his policies are part of the revolutionary left? You change their minds of course but the how is the difficult part.
So I'll ask you. You mention a revolutionary left that's divided. You seem to question the notion that other self-called left parties have policies in favor of capitalism, policies that are therefore not only incapable of improving the conditions for the working class but will actually help in making them worse.
I'll assume you are aware that by mentioning other left-parties one can only mean Syriza and Antarsya. The first one is praising Obama and the second one believes that a national currency will be the end of the ...apparently euro-induced crisis.
No you know these things -at least I hope you do- and you are also a somewhat educated person in terms or theory since you're here. You are also a person who's very passionate about the working class freeing itself.
So I'm asking you, what is it that I could possibly say to you to make you stop talking about a "divided revolutionary left" and the like? What is it I could say to you that all this nonsense by the greater part of the revolutionary left will only make your life worse?
Honestly, it's doing my head in that I can't think of one thing to say that could convince you because to me, it's just so obvious. Please tell me how your mind works and you'd be of huge assistance.
Of course the whole deal isn't solely about well-meaning people whose brain seems to have stopped any function.If only that were the case.
...We shall never recognise equality with the peasant profiteer, just as we do not recognise “equality” between the exploiter and the exploited, between the sated and the hungry, nor the “freedom” for the former to rob the latter. And those educated people who refuse to recognise this difference we shall treat as whiteguards, even though they may call themselves democrats, socialists, internationalists, Kautskys, Chernovs, or Martovs.
V.I. Lenin
What you refer to is not revolutionary left. But was the only viable alternative many people saw when they were confronted with the complete and utter betrayal by the KKE because of their rejection and continued rejection of cooperation with any protest not organized by them and dismissing these initiatives as either reactionary, fascist or infiltrationist.
The current outcome is not surprising and I have predicted this exact same thing would happen in previous Greek Newswire threads. Several members here attacked me for that position...but it seems time has proven me absolutely right and them wrong.
As you can reread if you have the time...I blame the repeated betrayal of the revolutionary movement by the KKE for all of this and their isolationism and even their blatant collaboration with the authorities.
As I have argued before...the KKE has over years become a bourgeoise parliamentary exponent. To accustomed to parliamentary seats and power that they have demonstrated willingness in collaborating with the police on several occasions to squash other revolutionary groups....and in doing so completely annihilated revolutionary potential.
In fact...the KKE has on more than one occasion asserted that they would only support a revolution which is led by them.
As I am doing right now? Really? You really want to go there? Because it was the KKE who were handing protesters over to the cops when the KKE protected parliament.
It was the KKE who rejected and argued against any other protest initiatives which were not organized by them and did not run under their or PAME banner.
Hell...KKE relies on PAME which consists for the largest part of non revolutionary groups.
I do not think that is what I said at all. What I said is that the KKE strategy is failing. Utterly failing. GD has twice as much supporters but still the KKE maintains their previous set course of propagating itself as the sole legitimate leader of the revolutionary movement....rejecting a pletoria of other revolutionary movements which are not represented in parliament.
It is the very same KKE who lauds their token progress in gaining parliamentary seats as a class victory.
And this position is the same throughout the last decades. The KKE has lost its political and revolutionary relevance because of their political position rejecting cooperation and supporting initiatives.
So any chance of a revolution in Greece? Not so long as the KKE does what the KKE does best: collaborate.
I just did. I see the KKE as a defunct remnant of bourgeoisie communism posing as a vanguardist party which will only start to become slightly revolutionary if they can entirely control the revolutionary movement. The KKE is the main obstacle in creating a revolutionary movement which consists of the many revolutionary factions active in Greece.
But as it stands...I still vividly remember what the KKE did to Trotskyists and Anarchists during the protests in the 80's and 90's....doing the cops work. In fact...it was the KKE who once published ad article claiming they themselves prefered to maintain the curent status quo until the time was right to take leadership over the revolutionary movement.
Now they pretend to be the revolutionary alternative. Don't make me laugh. The KKE killed the revolutionary movement. They are tools in the hands of the current system...and wit their actions created organisations like SYRIZ and Antarsya.
So the people wanted a revolution, got stopped by the communist party and then decided to settle for an Obama praising fraud?
And they are certainly the greater part of the "revolutionary left" because there is hardly anyone else. You consider Syriza revolutionary and you consider Antarsya and their love affair with the drachma revolutionary, because it's just them and the KKE.
You're not saying that KKE is the revolutionary left because you say that the left is devided. Who are you talking about if not these two groups?
It didn't hand over anyone. It did protect itself against armies of fascists and "revolutionary leftists" who had come out to protest in squares, always in the evening so the bosses wouldn't be annoyed, with reactionary slogans about "traitors" and "corrupt thieves".
These thugs did have every success in their "revolution" which the KKE was unfortunately unable to stop. Ie with the first chance they got they voted en mass for the nazis of golden dawn and for the Obama-lovers of Syriza, just about anyone really who could sweaten their ears with promises of a nicer capitalism.
Now is this what you forsaw? The dangers of a reactionary movement taking the lead and destroying every hope for the working class? No, this is what you wanted and your only problem is that communists didn't die in the process.
And yet again you fail to expicitly mention with whom and what initiatives.
Please do say so that the "revolutionary left" will stop being devided.
You shouldn't be unhappy. The movement in Greece has gone completely rotten, exactly because those initiatives succeeded.
How they succeeded and what the common worker has to expect from Obama, from a new Marshall plan or from a tough negotiation, this is what I can't wrap my head around.
I was hoping you could explain that to me and in that way help me, but you didn't.
You, much like them actually, just pretended it is you with the actually revolutionary stance and that it is somehow my fault that I didn't go along, waiving greek flags, calling out the traitors and saying that all that's needed is a tough guy to bully Merkel into submission.
You can be sure that I've heard all these before.
All I wanted to know is why on earth you have those opinions, why on earth would you expect the communist party to act like that and why on earth you think that something good would come out of it.
...We shall never recognise equality with the peasant profiteer, just as we do not recognise “equality” between the exploiter and the exploited, between the sated and the hungry, nor the “freedom” for the former to rob the latter. And those educated people who refuse to recognise this difference we shall treat as whiteguards, even though they may call themselves democrats, socialists, internationalists, Kautskys, Chernovs, or Martovs.
V.I. Lenin
Again, which are these "many revolutionary functions" and what is the revolutionary movement they want to create, which are its targets?
Be as descriptive as possible, I'm living in Greece and haven't noticed them.
As I said, the only kind of movement we had that was seperate from the "old-fashioned" labor movement, were the indignant ones, the ones you claim were ready to take over the parliament and... I guess do something with it.
But they didn't fail. They have succeded in every one of their aims.
They have succeeded in making the whole thing a "Greece vs Germany" standoff. They have succeeded in making the whole crisis seem like a result of "poor negotiation" either because our politicians are puppets of the Jews or because they are corrupt and Germany has their political carreers under control.
They have succeded in convincing everyone that what we need is "a strongman", a "leader", someone who will arrive in Brussels and get everyone to start paying huge amounts of money to Greece with no strings attached. They've convinced the country that this is how the world works and became in a way the movement that ended all movements, the movement that erased class struggle when so many dictatorships couldn't.
And they've unfortunately succeeded in one last thing. In having their main representatives (Syriza, Antarsya, Independent Greeks, the nazis) remain outside of office and thus able to continue spewing the same nonsense over and over again. That move was especially brilliant in fact.
So why are you complaining? The movement that you say was blocked by the KKE, was only blocked physically when it tried to murder people. It wasn't blocked ideologically though, it became as dominant as few ideas have ever become.
Should the communist party be very critical of itself that it wasn't in a better position to fight it? Should it be angry with itself that it wasn't a 100 times more vigilant when these ideas first appeared? Surely.
But those days are gone and those lessons are learnt.
Now what? Now is when I ask your help in trying to understand how to change people's minds.
There is a guy here that says he'll negotiate our way out of the crisis. There are some other people that claim our life has worsened because of the euro, and not because of a capitalist crisis. That if we had drachma we could actually be earning more and capitalists -who would still own their property, their factories- would happily invest!
These people call themselves leftists, some call themselves revolutionary leftists. And you're writing here not to criticize them but to say instead that the communist party should be doing more to unify the fragmented revolutionary left.
Explain your thinking to me because as I said, I am at a complete and utter loss. It's disheartening really, believe me.
...We shall never recognise equality with the peasant profiteer, just as we do not recognise “equality” between the exploiter and the exploited, between the sated and the hungry, nor the “freedom” for the former to rob the latter. And those educated people who refuse to recognise this difference we shall treat as whiteguards, even though they may call themselves democrats, socialists, internationalists, Kautskys, Chernovs, or Martovs.
V.I. Lenin
I am not considering the KKE part of the revolutionary left but part of its destruction.
What I do see as the revolutionary left is the pletoria of Trotskyist, Anarchists and left communist parties and groups currently not represented in parliament. Whose existence you habitually deny....since the KKE does not recognize them as revolutionary.
O come on. You still believe that BS? You have been proven wrong so many times that I am actually wondering if there are secret KKE basements where they brain wash you poor sods. We were there remember? We saw what was happening...and it definitely wasn't at night.
What did happen was that the KKE violently prevented other groups getting to the square. Prevented other groups to get to parliament. Formed a nice protective line in front of parliament and attacked other groups and handed others over to the cops. THAT is what happened.
Just like the KKE has done time and time before. They collaborate with the cops in order to have their nice little TV time.
Sure.
Get it straight: the KKE is the reactionary movement. And yes...I see them as the largest class traitors currently active in Greece and a real and pressing danger to the revolutionary movement.
In other words: I do not consider the KKE revolutionary at all. I consider them part of the bourgeoisie parliamentary system and class traitors. O...and I am basing myself on KKE publications which I have cited in the past.
We have hashed these over and over again in the past newswire threads. Please inform me which non KKE initiatives the KKE actually supported.
No...the momvement in Greece went rotten the days the KKE decided to conform and show their parliamentary allegiance. That is when the revolutionary spark exstinguished in Greece because the KKE did what it always does: piss all over it.
Let me state again....all the BS you are trying to put in my words aside...because I never said them....the KKE has repeatedly stated they want the current situation not to escalate and the current status quo maintained because THEY are not ready and in a position to take leadership over the revolutionary movement.
The KKE is highly sectarian and rejects any and all other revolutionary groups as either non revolutionary, informants, collaborators. and class traitors
Yet the only group which has absolutely proven to collaborate and betray their class....is in fact...the KKE.
I am writing here not that the communist party should have done more. I am writing here that the communist party of Greece is a failure.
It is a joke and it is a collaborationist tool entrenched within the parliamentary democratic system. I reject the honesty behind the self espoused revolutionary nature of the KKE and consider them class traitors.
Time and time again the KKE has collaborated during protests and demonstrations with the police. Time and time again they handed comrades over to the cops. Time and time they have stood in protection of the very same institutions they claim to want to eradicate.
They have done so because of political opportunism. Positioning themselves to take sole leadership over the revolution....which will never come. The KKE more than once published on their website that they prefered the status quo because currently they themselves were not ready for this leadership role in the revolution.
In acting like the KKE has acted for decades they pissed all over the revolution. Alienating large parts of the population and working class. So much so that GD support in working class is twice as high as support for the KKE.
In its blind and one sided propagandistic efforts and its collaboration with cops and establishment they alienated Trotskyists, Anarchists, left communists. ALL of which are dismissed as social fascists, trouble makers, collaborators, infiltrants.
I have witnessed that first hand in several demonstrations. My comrades have witnessed that in the now infamous defense of parliament by the KKE.
In my eyes the KKE are the worst kind of scum. Worse than GD. And Worse than SYRIZA and their ilk.
Did I make my position clear enough for you?
