Why is Stormfront community larger?

[Ironfront]

If you really can't see the difference between restricting reformists (most tendencies consider opposing tendencies to be revisionist in some sense) and liberals and homophobia, you need to acquaint yourself with the real world somewhat. If you do understand the difference, but feel justified using the example of homophobia to make insinuations about RevLeft, you need to seriously reconsider what the fuck you're doing.

Comrade Bonsteinovich was talking, I believe, about established, quality, revolutionary socialist posters, who were banned over what might have been minor breaches of the rules. Not about the restricted reformists or whatnot. How would the quality of this site improve if every thread became a great "YOU GUISE COMMUNISM IS GREAT IN THEORY BUT ITS IMPRACTICAL WE NEED TO VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATS"? We get enough of such rubbish with the current rules.

And that is the issue and why Stormfront is bigger than Revleft: this board is elitist, while Stormfront, while a collection of idiots and fascist douche-monkeys, as much as I hate to say it, is less elitist.

Studying racialist morons is something of a hobby and I have noticed they have factions themselves. They have "reformists" who are only slightly more overtly racist than most Republicans and some Democrats, political minded hardliners like the David Duke crowd, do-nothing Hollywood Nazis and nearly terrorists types, like the World Church of the Creator. And Stormfront is open to them all...

Revleft? You would probably ban a Troskyte who suggested someone vote for gay marriage because said comrade is "supporting the state."

I am not a liberal, hate the Democratic (sic) party, can't stand that corporate owned right-wing hack Obama and would never take armed self defense off the table. But, I am still labeled a "petty bourgeoisie" because I vote (third party and referendums) and do not believe the capitalist mode of production should be completely done away with.

Something to keep in mind: if Eugene Debs and Malcolm X were alive today, they would be banned or at least restricted from Revleft.

Stormfront is bigger because they have a big tent (a big tent filled with fascist fools, but a big tent none the less) while Revleft is small because it seems to be elitist as can be. Reminds me of how the communists and the Social Democrats both lost Germany to the Nazis and why? Because the Nazis were willing to work with the monarchists and non-fascist radical right while the communists attacked the Social Democrats, despite Trosky's urging to put differences aside and unite against a common foe.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

And that is the issue and why Stormfront is bigger than Revleft: this board is elitist, while Stormfront, while a collection of idiots and fascist douche-monkeys, as much as I hate to say it, is less elitist.

Bullshit! I was banned for posting gay-porn there!

Although I do wholly agree that Revleft has banned members over ridiculous reasons (sometimes even personal ones with poor excuses for them), I don't think we should be as open as stabber-of-blacks land.

Studying racialist morons is something of a hobby and I have noticed they have factions themselves. They have "reformists" who are only slightly more overtly racist than most Republicans and some Democrats, political minded hardliners like the David Duke crowd, do-nothing Hollywood Nazis and nearly terrorists types, like the World Church of the Creator. And Stormfront is open to them all...

That's because they are all just that - supremacist groups. There's common ground for them there. Are you suggesting we unrestrict these kinds of people on Revleft?

Revleft? You would probably ban a Troskyte who suggested someone vote for gay marriage because said comrade is "supporting the state."

This isn't true. In fact, many admins voted for gay-marriage.

I am not a liberal, hate the Democratic (sic) party, can't stand that corporate owned right-wing hack Obama and would never take armed self defense off the table.

That's great, but I fail to see how guns being banned has any connection to corporate agenda.

But, I am still labeled a "petty bourgeoisie" because I vote (third party and referendums) and do not believe the capitalist mode of production should be completely done away with.

Then you're for an exploitative and wasteful economic system that ruins lives and creates inequality of its' own merit.

Something to keep in mind: if Eugene Debs and Malcolm X were alive today, they would be banned or at least restricted from Revleft.

How would Eugene Debs be restricted? He was full-on cosmopolitan, unlike monsieur.

[#FF0000]

Revleft? You would probably ban a Troskyte who suggested someone vote for gay marriage because said comrade is "supporting the state."

You wouldn't, actually? Revleft is ultra ban-happy for sure (and that isn't a controversial statement to make in the least), but you could maybe try using actual good examples instead of that hypothetical that actually isn't true at all?

But, I am still labeled a "petty bourgeoisie" because I vote (third party and referendums) and do not believe the capitalist mode of production should be completely done away with.

People disagree with you and call your politics reformist. Marxist-Leninists get called Stalinists, left-coms get called infantile. Sorry dude but people who don't like your politics are going to criticize them.

Something to keep in mind: if Eugene Debs and Malcolm X were alive today, they would be banned or at least restricted from Revleft.

Probably, yeah, considering they came from a different time period and would probably say some shit that we think of as pretty messed up to say today. You aren't really saying anything, here.

Stormfront is bigger because they have a big tent (a big tent filled with fascist fools, but a big tent none the less) while Revleft is small because it seems to be elitist as can be. Reminds me of how the communists and the Social Democrats both lost Germany to the Nazis and why? Because the Nazis were willing to work with the monarchists and non-fascist radical right while the communists attacked the Social Democrats, despite Trosky's urging to put differences aside and unite against a common foe.

I guess stormfront is less elitist in that their only requirement for entry is to hate black people. I don't think being "elitist" is our problem, though. I think, mainly:

1) Leftists are too busy irl
2) Revleft is a really shitty board in general with admins that make poor decisions and a pretty dumb userbase thanks to ban-happy mods and admins.

I think we should focus on these things instead of trying to make nice with people who disagree with us. Liberals and social democrats aren't revolutionary leftists. Sorry~

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

And that is the issue and why Stormfront is bigger than Revleft: this board is elitist, while Stormfront, while a collection of idiots and fascist douche-monkeys, as much as I hate to say it, is less elitist.

Maintaining the focus of this site is not "elitism", nor is protecting members from the usual idiotic bigotry "elitist". This site is intended to be a place for revolutionary socialists to discuss socialism. Those who are not revolutionary socialists are restricted in order to prevent the site from degenerating into endless unproductive discussions with such people, and those that are disruptive are banned. It's as simple as that.

Studying racialist morons is something of a hobby and I have noticed they have factions themselves. They have "reformists" who are only slightly more overtly racist than most Republicans and some Democrats, political minded hardliners like the David Duke crowd, do-nothing Hollywood Nazis and nearly terrorists types, like the World Church of the Creator. And Stormfront is open to them all...

Because they are all racists. Reformists, social democrats and liberals are not revolutionary leftists, so the analogy fails.

Revleft? You would probably ban a Troskyte who suggested someone vote for gay marriage because said comrade is "supporting the state."

This is not true, as has already been pointed out.

I am not a liberal, hate the Democratic (sic) party, can't stand that corporate owned right-wing hack Obama and would never take armed self defense off the table. But, I am still labeled a "petty bourgeoisie" because I vote (third party and referendums) and do not believe the capitalist mode of production should be completely done away with.

And therefore, you are not a revolutionary socialist. Is this so difficult to grasp? An editorial decision has been made to restrict you to the Opposing Ideologies forum in order to keep the rest of the forums relatively focused.

Something to keep in mind: if Eugene Debs and Malcolm X were alive today, they would be banned or at least restricted from Revleft.

So what? Our attitudes and norms evolve. Are we going to fawn over everything these people said and lower our standards in order to accommodate some of their outdated views? I'd rather that we didn't.

Stormfront is bigger because they have a big tent (a big tent filled with fascist fools, but a big tent none the less) while Revleft is small because it seems to be elitist as can be. Reminds me of how the communists and the Social Democrats both lost Germany to the Nazis and why? Because the Nazis were willing to work with the monarchists and non-fascist radical right while the communists attacked the Social Democrats, despite Trosky's urging to put differences aside and unite against a common foe.

Except we aren't fighting fascists here, are we? If you want to join some online fighting detachment against Stormfront or whatever, be our guest. But this site isn't such a detachment.

And a big tent filled with idiots is still... well, filled with idiots. I have no idea why you expect us to be like Stormfront.

2) Revleft is a really shitty board in general with admins that make poor decisions and a pretty dumb userbase thanks to ban-happy mods and admins.

I think there are too many bans of quality posters, and not enough bans or restrictions of low-quality ones, to be honest. I doubt this is due to any sort of conscious decision on the part of the board administration, though; quality posters are more visible so even minor breaches of the rules will be noticed by the admins.

[#FF0000]

I think there are too many bans of quality posters, and not enough bans or restrictions of low-quality ones, to be honest. I doubt this is due to any sort of conscious decision on the part of the board administration, though; quality posters are more visible so even minor breaches of the rules will be noticed by the admins.

I think I sounded a little too mean saying "dumb". All of us were new to this political nonsense at some point, but when we were new, we had hella people well-versed in this stuff to talk to. I don't think it's quality vs. low-quality. I'd say it's more people new to leftist theory and practice vs. people relatively well versed in theory and practice.

We banned a ton of people who were really fucking good with theory n practice, on top of being unreasonably on-point in a lot of things beyond obscure left-wing nerd bullshit.

[cynicles]

"Why is Stormfront community larger? "

Simple: The United States is an Right Wing nation and it is still has a lot of racists.

Not to mention the centre of the largest global empire currently active.

[Comrade #138672]

Because racism is still prevalent.

[Slavoj Zizek's Balls]

Malcolm X recanted his views on segregation. Always look at the complete being at the end of their journey, kinda helps to do that before claiming that Malcolm X would be banned for not being cosmopolitan.

[Questionable]

Hasn't Stormfront also been around twice as long as Revleft, and had its origins in an actual organization instead of a collection of internet comrades? I'm pretty sure it was started in the early 1990s by the Ku Klux Klan.

The fact that such a well-known fascist organization started the website would give it credibility among other white supremacists, whereas anyone on the internet can start a website like Revleft and no one has any real reason to join (No offense).

[Roberto]

Workers' control of production and participatory democracy hasn't existed in any of these places. All these places never surpassed Marxist standards

You don't seem to have understand my point. Whether or not to construct a road is an issue both in capitalist and communist society, how to solve unemployment only in the former. My point was that it involves far less time than current political procedures.

You suggested such institutions could not work, I proved otherwise. As for the economic conditions of those communities, a different discussion, those are only limitedly relevant to me as I consider all of them to be self-managed capitalism. There are some economic indications they outperform their regional competitors, but I don't have time to detail them here.

I think you're mistaking your incoherence with my "cognitive disadvantage". It may help if you'd answer my questions with each question separately and not vaguely appeal to them in a long ramble where you attempt to answer them all at once, making it unclear as to what exactly you are replying to.

Things looked `objective and logical` to those who created those failures which I mentioned. Of course you have an optimistic opinion of some new schemes, but since they are like those former based on an idealistiy view of essentially virtuous nature of human being it is destined to fail again. Perhaps even more so due to arrogance of someone who thinks he has learned upon the errors of old.

Much like I prefer my girlfriend not calling me 10 times a day I prefer a society which does not care if I am employed, suicidal, taking steroids, or cheating my gf with a tranny whore... on another level since there is free renewable energy and machines to work there is a significant surplus enabeling a part of the population not to work at all even if they can. I agree that current beaurocratic bs in most of the world is inefficient and should be replaced by a better system, perhaps modeled on Swiss democracy.

I was suggesting it does not make sense to give a retard, mentally ill, uneducated or even those with superficial interest or understanding of politics a vote... for instance my grandmother and grandfather (senile and demented) voted for my country to join EU simply because of all the media hype the state TV forced upon us, before that they were always against it! My best friend`s mother (uninterested in politics) voted for the biggest party `because she knew they would win` basically that is a very iresponcible woman which just wanted to fell like `a winner` by voting for a winner. People are mostly scum, low life, iresponcible, liars, culturally deficient and unbelievably flawed they tend to get ppl like them in power and decision which suit their disgusting nature into law, they are easily tricked, fooled and manipulated.

Btw this disgusting peasant is the mayor of my city... elected by his peers (of peasant majority immigrants from the countryside) threw a democratic way: htt p://ww w.24sata.hr/politika/veseli-kerum-stavio-oblog-od-prsuta-na-svoje-opaljeno-celo-314537 remove the spaces

Connect the dots or move on. I do not have time to focus on every single word you said, this post took me 26 minutes.

[liberlict]

"Free speech", is limited most places, to be fair. There are not many forums you can post tirades about n*ggers and Jews and keep your account. Stormfront is an exception more than a rule.

[Crux]

Revleft? You would probably ban a Troskyte who suggested someone vote for gay marriage because said comrade is "supporting the state."

I am not a liberal, hate the Democratic (sic) party, can't stand that corporate owned right-wing hack Obama and would never take armed self defense off the table. But, I am still labeled a "petty bourgeoisie" because I vote (third party and referendums) and do not believe the capitalist mode of production should be completely done away with.

Something to keep in mind: if Eugene Debs and Malcolm X were alive today, they would be banned or at least restricted from Revleft.

Stormfront is bigger because they have a big tent (a big tent filled with fascist fools, but a big tent none the less) while Revleft is small because it seems to be elitist as can be. Reminds me of how the communists and the Social Democrats both lost Germany to the Nazis and why? Because the Nazis were willing to work with the monarchists and non-fascist radical right while the communists attacked the Social Democrats, despite Trosky's urging to put differences aside and unite against a common foe.

Right. I am a trotskyist. I support gay marriage as a basic democratic right. I also happen to be an administrator of this forum. The real problem with your position is that you do not even believe in ending capitalism.
Again, this forum is called Revleft, meaning we strive to be a forum for the revolutionary left. As far as I'm concerned that's a broad enough tent. And you getting flack over being a self-admitted reformist is not the same as every one of those somehow being an expression of board policy because we are a pretty broad tent and we certainly disagree quite strongly among each other. We do have a base-line, mind, and that is being in favour of the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism. Again you are still very welcome to discuss with us here in OI though.

[Ironfront]

Right. I am a trotskyist. I support gay marriage as a basic democratic right. I also happen to be an administrator of this forum. The real problem with your position is that you do not even believe in ending capitalism.
Again, this forum is called Revleft, meaning we strive to be a forum for the revolutionary left. As far as I'm concerned that's a broad enough tent. And you getting flack over being a self-admitted reformist is not the same as every one of those somehow being an expression of board policy because we are a pretty broad tent and we certainly disagree quite strongly among each other. We do have a base-line, mind, and that is being in favour of the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism. Again you are still very welcome to discuss with us here in OI though.

When did I ever say I was a reformist? "Reformist" implies that one believes "reform" is the end, and not just one form of "mean", a "revolutionary" is one who thinks revolution is the only end and means, while "evolutionary" is one who believes reform and upheaval are equally important in the large, painstaking struggle to create socialism and ultimately a classes, stateless society.

If Salvador Allende was alive today, he would be called a "reformist, petty bourgeoisie blah blah" as well...

[Paul Pott]

Stormfront is the main online gathering of white supremacism globally, and receives tons of curious visitors and opponents.

While Revleft is the biggest revolutionary leftist forum, there is no equivalent for the left.

Secondly, Revleft's core membership is from the part of the world (North America, the Anglophone, and to a lesser extent North and Western Europe) where the left is weak numerically, and in the rest of the world it does not congregate online, at least not on forums like Revleft. The white supremacists have the opposite situation.

You could fit all of our Latin American, Arab, Russian, Greek, French, Indian, etc. members into a room, all regions or countries where there are major communist movements.

From what I've seen we have like two active KKE members and ten from every Trot sect in Britain and anarchist collective in Holland.

[Comrade Nasser]

I feel like we have a thread like this once a week lol.

Long story short: White male capitalist supremacists do not want to lose the privilege that being a heterosexual white male bestows upon them (I f you can't see white male privilege please just look around you) and they feel as if larger numbers of non-whites will threaten the power they hold over the religious, racial, and sexual minorities that reside in supposed "white countries". Its funny that they actually support the idea of "race" besides the FACT that we all look different from years of MIXING RACES and living in different environments. But who can blame them? They have the power and they don't wanna lose it. Thats why anyone who isn't a white male jackass capitalist supremacist needs to oppose these losers.

[4MyNation]

The Reds beat the Nazis before, we shall do it again comrade.

Long live the Revolution!

[Igor]

"Why is Stormfront community larger? "

Simple: The United States is an Right Wing nation and it is still has a lot of racists.

stormfront is really international though

like notably more so than revleft

[Vireya]

The Reds beat the Nazis before, we shall do it again comrade.

Long live the Revolution!

The "reds" you refer to weren't even socialists.

[Sea]

We've had threads exactly like this before, asking the same question. Sockpuppet?

The "reds" you refer to weren't even socialists.

As fun as it is to say things like this, no.

The Reds beat the Nazis before, we shall do it again comrade.

Long live the Revolution!

4YourWhat?

[Goblin]

I think the fact that David Duke contributes to their forum can have something to do with it. The guy is really famous.