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You have lost all touch with reality, next el Salvador will conquer the US...
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least We shall be free
Oh, and (in retaliation?) Assad bombed a Palestinian refugee camp, again.
Funny I have not seen any mention of that, again...
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least We shall be free
When? Where?
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least We shall be free
To note, in 2 years the Syrian regime killed about as much Palestinians as Israel during the whole 5 years of the second intifada...
Not to excuse any Israeli action but just to supply some context..
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least We shall be free
Do you happen to know why Assad killed so many Palestinians/bombed refugee camps?
Hamas (as a muslim brotherhood aligned group) and other sunni Palestinian factions deserted assad early in the uprising and joined forces/expressed sympathy with the FSA.
Yarmouk refugee camp near Damascus is more or less completely under rebel control, other camps are more divided/switch.
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least We shall be free
It quite certainly is doing that. But it is also doing something else: it is giving Butcher Assad a chance to call for national unity against the foreign agressor, and consequently to put the opposition into a difficult situation.
Luís Henrique
The Syrian regimes medleing in Lebanon is very unpopular in syria save under the shiite minority, even a lot of christians/druze and alawi who in general are more regime loyal have more solidarity with their respective factions in Lebanon so it might actually be beneficial to Israel than not.
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least We shall be free
In fact I have heard some fringe voices suggesting that Israel are actually starting to come down on the side of Assad - knowing that he hasn't really caused any trouble on the Israeli-Syrian front, whilst the rebels are a largely unknown quantity who could potentially depart from Assad's 'hawkish words, dovish actions'-approach, - and that the attack was an intentional attempt to discredit the opposition. Whilst I consider that suggestion pretty unlikely, it's equally unlikely that Israel (and its allies) wouldn't have anticipated such a reaction, considering nigh-on every regime in the region endeavours to paint itself as some glorious anti-Zionist vanguard any time stuff gets hairy at home, and uses these (supposed) credentials to 'rally the troops' behind them, so to speak. Assad is doing precisely the same thing here, which is entirely predictable because that's been his modus operandi for years.
With that in mind, I think it would be foolish to consider this some unilateral Israeli action, because it's far too dangerous a move to be carried out on a limb. There would have been consultation with other members of the Frankenstein coalition that seems to be forming in support of the opposition, Turkish, Qatari or American strategists must have given a green light, either to this particular action, or more generally, allowing Israel to attack as and when it feels it is necessary. Given the potential fallout from any Israeli military action in Syria (which should be obvious to anybody), I refuse to believe that Israel would not have been placed under pretty strict orders to keep its nose well and truly out, and it would be pure folly to disregard such restrictions at this time (and in such a dramatic way), at the risk of alienating Turkey in particular, and undoing the ongoing Israel-Turkey reconciliation process that seems to have everything to do with Syria-Iran. That Israel did intervene certainly suggests that they were given free rein to do so. (The same can be said of Syria: if they choose to retaliate - I don't think they will, mind you - it will not be against the wishes of Russia or Iran, neither of which would let the conflict escalate without their say-so)
Actually I wouldn't be at all surprised if certain sections of the Arab League weren't secretly celebrating this, even if they're crying crocodile tears in public, probably just to save face rather than singing the praises of the very same 'public enemy no. 1' they have long claimed to oppose. Remember, it wasn't so long ago they were actively calling for foreign intervention against Assad, so don't buy into all this chitter-chatter about 'violation of Syrian territorial integrity' or whatever it is they're talking about, because they were themselves demanding it, and now they've got it. If Wikileaks taught us anything about Israel's place in the Middle East, it's that many of the regimes and organisations that publicly denounce Israel are far more supportive in private, when they don't have to worry about the loyalty of their subjects or distracting them with empty promises of some 'greater prize'...
Wow what a clusterfuck. Everybody make sure to support the inevitable hundreds of thousands of refugees from this crisis.
For student organizing in california, join this group!
http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=1036
http://socialistorganizer.org/
"[I]t’s hard to keep potent historical truths bottled up forever. New data repositories are uncovered. New, less ideological, generations of historians grow up. In the late 1980s and before, Ann Druyan and I would routinely smuggle copies of Trotsky’s History of the Russian Revolution into the USSR—so our colleagues could know a little about their own political beginnings.”
--Carl Sagan
psycho -- thanks so much. It appears to have not been very widely reported...
All of the Arab elites love the Palestinians as propaganda tools, just not as actual people. See the recent floodings of the tunnels into Gaza by the Egyptian "revolutionaries"... Morsi's the same as Mubarak.
My guess would be that people in the camps were either acting independently or that there were rumours that they were. Just a guess.
Totally. And when are calling for throwing arms into unknown hands? WTF? Great! Clusterfuck + more weapons =x a gazillion
So that means everyone should please stop using the corporate-media-approved term of "civil war" since this is most obviously a *proxy* war.
The Wahhabists and Ikwhanists need aid to liberate Syria from secularism. Who will aid them? Oh, of course, the Zionists!
It's a love story.
Yeah, because the current dictatorship with its ethno-supremacy enshrined in its constitution is so much better than MB style Islamism right?
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least We shall be free
How about we agree that at this point comparing quantitative differences isn't really conductive to productive analysis and that both sides do not represent anything in the way of the interests of the people of Syria
Men vanish from earth leaving behind them the furrows they have ploughed. I see the furrow Lenin left sown with the unshatterable seed of a new life for mankind, and cast deep below the rolling tides of storm and lightning, mighty crops for the ages to reap.
~Helen Keller
To despise the enemy strategically is an elementary requirement for a revolutionary. Without the courage to despise the enemy and without daring to win, it will be simply impossible to make revolution and wage a people’s war, let alone to achieve victory. ~Lin Biao
http://commiforum.forumotion.com/
Yeah, no. How about we support those elements within the rebellion that are genuinely resisting oppression against Assad and the Islamists? Or is that not good enough?
I've seen posts that essentially come down to "well, Syria in 2013 is a different animal than Syria was in 2011" - in what way? Beyond the necessity of protesters arming themselves against state-sanctioned violence and the prevalence of foreign-backed jihadists, there still remains elements within the movement worthy of critical support. The people who initially protested in the streets haven't gone away, they're an integral part of the struggle. They're organizing.
The situation is Syria is tricky, yes, but some of y'all really need to reassess your original thoughts on the matter.
"Socialist ideas become significant only to the extent that they become rooted in the working class."
"If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. . .Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."
SocialistWorker.org
International Socialist Review
Marxists Internet Archive
Indeed, the only part of the opposition remotely worthy of support is the NCC. They're on very shitty terms with the FSA factions that matter.
Our views here should take a lesson from Colombia. We must call for a peace with concessions, and Assad has indicated he would agree to that. But armed rebel factions will settle for nothing less than his head, and there lies the problem.
The point most of us are trying to make is that the Arab Spring in Syria is dead, and has been for a while. The paradigm you keep clinging to is outdated.
Isn't it both? I'm with BG -- "clusterfuck" that peeps should keep there hands off of is best.
In a brief but lively chat with a brother on May Day, we were in agreement on Syria, and his words were "Do no harm." Seems the right call.
