Nick Wrack: How can we supersede the sects?

[Per Levy]

The political Party is certainly not the "natural" organizational form of the working class as most proletarians are not class conscious today; the political Party is however the necessary organizational form of the working class as it is the historical organizational form of classes.

you havnt answered Fionnagáins questions though. why is the party necesarry?

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

you havnt answered Fionnagáins questions though. why is the party necesarry?

Why is it necessary? Because the Proletariat needs to utilize all socially existing weapons at its disposal in its fight to overthrow the political-economic-social rule of the Bourgeoisie. Division of Labor increases productivity: the more socialisation of class conscious proletarians there is in one organization (inevitably with its internal differences, hence factions), the more productive the work of the organization. Currently, the "57 different organizations" of Socialism each direct their members to write virtually the same article on the same subject, hence needlessly duplicating effort and wasting member's labor which could be applied to build the social movement-takeover of the Proletariat in all social activities.

If the liberal or conservative Bourgeoisie are in control of the most popular Newspaper, the Proletariat has to aspire to take away that rank. As Communists we have to make it our foremost goal to create competition and social division between the Proletariat and Bourgeoisie, not amongst ourselves! When social competition and divisions within bourgeois society have met up to the material antagonisms between Worker and Capitalist, then the foremost question that will face this society will be on which side of this civilly cloaked civil war each individual will be on. Persons will be continually forced by the development of a united, antagonistic proletarian organization rooted in all social activities, to engage with the theory and reality of class struggle.

[bcbm]

Our "idea" is to build an actual Party of the working class, which would naturally include factions. The point is to unite the class into the necessary and natural organizational form: the political Party.

thats nice. not relevant to the point i was making but nice.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I don't think that one needs to know "the solution" to something to know that something does not work. To use an analogy, if my car doesn't start, I don't need to know exactly what's wrong with it to know that it isn't starting. The left has been flailing around ineffectually for decades upon decades...I don't need to know what kind of revolutionary impetus THE CLASS needs to know that. The left has almost always looked inwardly for answers to why this has been the case, too, with maybe some passing references to outward economic restructuring (but always makes sure to add the stipulation that nothing has really changed & that now we need the Leninist vanguard more than ever, properly equipped with the lessons learned since 1917).

[Fionnagáin]

Why is it necessary? Because the Proletariat needs to utilize all socially existing weapons at its disposal in its fight to overthrow the political-economic-social rule of the Bourgeoisie. Division of Labor increases productivity: the more socialisation of class conscious proletarians there is in one organization (inevitably with its internal differences, hence factions), the more productive the work of the organization. Currently, the "57 different organizations" of Socialism each direct their members to write virtually the same article on the same subject, hence needlessly duplicating effort and wasting member's labor which could be applied to build the social movement-takeover of the Proletariat in all social activities.

If the liberal or conservative Bourgeoisie are in control of the most popular Newspaper, the Proletariat has to aspire to take away that rank. As Communists we have to make it our foremost goal to create competition and social division between the Proletariat and Bourgeoisie, not amongst ourselves! When social competition and divisions within bourgeois society have met up to the material antagonisms between Worker and Capitalist, then the foremost question that will face this society will be on which side of this civilly cloaked civil war each individual will be on. Persons will be continually forced by the development of a united, antagonistic proletarian organization rooted in all social activities, to engage with the theory and reality of class struggle.

This is gibberish. It doesn't even read as coherent prose, let alone theory.

The one nugget of sense I'm drawing from this is the idea that there has to be some sort of militant organisation to force people's hand, to force them to take one or other side of the class line. But it's still unclear why a political party is necessary for this, why this process can only occur when the organised working class is brought together into the formal structures of the mass party.