Anti-Zionism = Anti-Semitism

[Tim Cornelis]

Anti-Zionism = Anti-Semitism
For a long time, as an anti-zionist, I considered this statement to be utterly ridiculous. Zionism, after all, represents not all Jews. However, I just read an article by a communist of sorts trying to disprove many arguments that anti-zionism rests on anti-semitic assumptions (as made by another communist of sorts). Ironically this gave, in my view, some credit to the notion that anti-zionism is anti-semitic, although I don't necessarily agree it makes for interesting discussions.

Communists tend to recognise more things as racist than social-democrats do and especially more than conservatives do. Conservatives generally would deny any institutional racism in the United States, whereas communists generally recocgnise it. Keep this in mind.

From a communist perspective, all (bourgeois) states are as legitimate as the next, and all nation-states need to be disintegrated. Thus, the singling out of the Zionist state is peculiar. Surely, there are far more oppressive and even more racist states than Israel? Zimbabwe comes to mind, Syria's treatment of Kurds, Iran's treatment of Kurds and Arabs, China's ethnic colonisation of Tibet is similar to Israel's colonists, and the treatment of women in Saudia Arabia is ostensibly worse in many regards than the treatment of Palestinians by Israelis.*

*

*You may reply Saudi women are not systematically murdered, I would reply, deaths due to domestic violence are high but isn't really the same, but imagine if these Saudi women began armed resistance, their treatment would be the same if not worse than Israeli treatment of Palestinians.

So if you do not identify as 'anti-Syrian' why should you identify as anti-Zionist? It may not be explicit racism, but anti-zionism, especially amongst the far-left, may rest on implicit anti-semitic sentiment. Like conservatives do not recognise institutional racism in the US because it isn't explicit, may we be doing the same for anti-Zionism? This is especially so since many of the anti-Zionist arguments rely on liberal politics, e.g. "Israel stole land" is a common argument, while communists recognise all land is stolen.

You may reply, "I'm an anti-Zionist, but I also advocate the destruction of all nation-states." Then why the need to identify yourself as an anti-Zionist? Being anti-nationalist includes opposition to zionism, while identifying anti-Zionist implies a priority of opposing Israel over other nation-states. Why this priority?

Some food for thought.

[melvin]

Anti-zionism in the west is a part of opposing ones own nation state because Israel is a part of the American power bloc in the world. That is why it makes sense to more outwardly oppose zionist treatment of Palestinians than, for example, Turkish treatment of Kurds. You expose your own states crimes.

[Durruti's friend]

As I get it, Zionism is/was the movement for the creation of the State of Israel and as such is sort of imperialist and definitely reactionary. But, on the other hand, it really isn't any worse than the things you mentioned, or Hamas, for that matter.

But what I find interesting is the Zionist stance on the salvation of Jews before and during WWII. David Ben-Gurion said during the Evian Conference:

''If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.''

So, I'd say that Zionism's goal isn't even securing the lives of Jews facing oppression but only the creation of an 'ethnicly clean' Jewish state because of religious and nationalist reasons. It seems to me that Zionism isn't only anti-Arab, but even anti-Jewish to a point.

And I never call myself explicitly anti-Zionist, always only anti-nationalist.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

It is a curious issue. I guess that because it was a political issue within the last century in terms of a new nation being granted at the expense of another people (the Palestinians), and that that state has probably been at least on a par with countries like Zimbabwe, Syria etc. in terms of oppression of the Palestinian people and Israeli Arabs, that it's a particular focus.

I do agree though, i'm rather suspcious of people who are so focused on anti-Zionism. Not that one shouldn't be against the actions of the Israeli government and the treatment of the Palestinian people, and the power distribution between Israelis and Palestinians, but yeah, anybody can see that conflict resolution requires a bit more balance than some on the left tend to have. Note: not concilliation or acceptance, but balance.

[Yuppie Grinder]

People who buy into National-Liberation movements are of course going to side with Palestine over Israel, and it's plain to see Israel is the imperialist aggressor in that situation. I don't think it has anything to do with anti-semitism.
As a Marxist, I don't think it's possible to effectively oppose imperialism by picking sides in inter-capital warfare, and I don't think national liberation movements are in any way progressive in the epoch of decadent capitalism.
Israel does practice apartheid bordering on genocide.

[Lord Hargreaves]

I don't really see why leftists/communists have to beat themselves up over not being against everything bad equally, or for not spending the same amount of time denouncing each of those individual things that they are against. It just has the feeling to me of wildly unrealistic standards being fostered upon us by our enemies.

If we had to be completely even handed about every criticism we make, giving "equal time" to all sides and all concerns, we would end up saying nothing at all... and isn't that the result that those raising such criticisms of us leftists were aiming at in the first place? (let's be honest)

It is a nonsense that, say, we can't condemn racism because, hell, whites are having a hard time too; or that we can't condemn sexism and homophobia because white lesbians living in the West aren't doing as badly as straight men in poorer countries. These criticisms are not contradictory, they do not reveal hypocrisy or double standards: ultimately, in fact, all these positions come together, they are complementary.

And it is a nonsense too that we can't be anti-imperialists and oppose the expropriation and subjugation of an entire people because "all property is theft!"... or we can't support Palestinian statehood because all states are bad. In my own personal opinion, it is false to say that it is "the communist position" that all states are the same, all nations and nationalisms are the same, that there is no difference in legitimacy whatsoever between that government and any government. That is quite simply nihilism, not communism.

If we are anti-Zionists, that says nothing about our views concerning the oppressive nature of many Arab states, and how they treat their minorities. It actually puts us in a stronger position morally, not a weakened one, for us to then go on from criticising Israel to criticising those Arab states and their own abuses against their own people.

Why "prioritize" Israel? Well, because it is a colonial state, backed by the United States and Europe, so we have an extra responsibility - those of us living in the West - to oppose such policies. And no, I don't believe it is necessarily the case that Israel isn't as bad as other places: it is, in many instances, quantitatively the most racist and unjust state on the planet.

But even if the treatment of Palestinians wasn't that bad, even if there really are places that are far worse, who cares that we choose to focus on Israel? Focusing our criticisms on Israel just because that happens to be a popular position, or just because you are trying to appeal to Muslim voters in your constituency, or just because that was your major in college and the history of the region interests you, or whatever it is, doesn't mean you are being anti-Semitic . Can you not see what a startlingly large leap that is? To even suggest such a thing would be - and given the context, I'm not at all sorry to say this - succumbing to Zionist propaganda.

[blake 3:17]

At the OP -- very good and fair question. There's an element missing in your thinking which seems to equate Israelis with Zionists -- the two are certainly not identical, and there are many Zionists who are not Jews.

And neither the nation or the state are going away for a long time, so we gotta deal with these things. One can propose utopian models which will just not happen or try to be a little bit realistic.

So there are several questions here -- Why is Zionism so dangerous? Why focus on Israel as a human rights abuser? Is the oppression of the Palestinian people more urgent than others?

To passively watch the genocide of the Palestinian people is clearly unacceptable on a very basic moral level. The alliance between Israeli, Canadian, and American states is an extremely dangerous one for the entire world.

I've been asked why I single Israel out (which is only true in the sense that I support the BDS campaign) and I feel a special responsibility given the amount of support it is given by Canada both financially and ideologically. When I walk to work I pass two massive bill boards requesting donations for Israel. Does any other country do this? Does any other country do this while bulldozing houses, jailing children, and bombing schools? No. This is insanity.

[blake 3:17]

As a Marxist, I don't think it's possible to effectively oppose imperialism by picking sides in inter-capital warfare, and I don't think national liberation movements are in any way progressive in the epoch of decadent capitalism.

Are you suggesting the Israeli Palestinian conflict is between capitals?

And, yes there are Palestinian capitalists, they are extraordinarily weak as a class, and the Palestinian people are represented by very weak bureaucracies.

This is hardly the same as a very powerful capitalist class, a very powerful state, a very powerful military, and many many very powerful institutions and bureaucracies.

[Skyhilist]

Living in the U.S., Zionism is especially relevant because of our governments strong support of it in siding with Israel. That's why I think many people who consider themselves anti-imperialists in general emphasis "anti-Zionism", at least in this country. That certainly isn't to say that the other mistreatments you mentioned should be ignored though.

[Per Levy]

cant we just all agree that some anti-zionism is most certantly anti-semitic while other anti-zionism isnt.

[a_wild_MAGIKARP]

Like others have said, it's different mostly because of how much of an influence Israel has on western countries. The idea that Israel controls western governments, while exaggerated, is not entirely conspiracy theory bullshit. The fact that the US gives 8 million dollars to Israel every single day is good enough evidence that the Zionazi state has a very strong influence in the world.
If someone asked what my political ideology is, obviously I wouldn't say anti-Zionist instead of Communist, but if we were discussing Israel or Zionism, then I would make it clear I am an anti-Zionist.
The idea that opposition to Zionism is anti-Semitic is like saying that opposition to Nazism is anti-German. Zionism isn't as bad, of course, but still.

[homegrown terror]

i oppose the zionist invasion of palestinian lands not due to stolen ownership but due to the forced removal of the palestinian people, which in my mind is neo-colonialism. those who know me know that i hate the RELIGION of judaism, but not more so than i do for islam or christianity, and while i don't believe anyone has a right to own land, i think everyone has a right to a home they can feel safe in, and the occupation of israel robbed a lot of people of that right. that is why i am anti-zionist, separately from being anti-statist.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

What's antisemitic is when the criticism of Zionism is applied to the Jewish people and tradition, and not applied to a particular national project. Particularly pernicious is the attempt to exaggerate the influence of the Jewish communities or create conspiracy theories.

Also, what Israel does to Palestinians should not be judged as "worse" than what Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria do or did to Kurds, what the British did to the Irish, or any other colonial-imperial projects. The point is that we should criticize an ideological distinction between people when it comes to access to political and economic rights (be that a distinction between Jewish person and Muslim/Christian Palestinian, Englishman and Irishman, Arab/Turk/Iranian and Kurd, etc)

[Hexen]

Like others have said, it's different mostly because of how much of an influence Israel has on western countries. The idea that Israel controls western governments, while exaggerated, is not entirely conspiracy theory bullshit. The fact that the US gives 8 million dollars to Israel every single day is good enough evidence that the Zionazi state has a very strong influence in the world.

Well it is because the U.S. and Israel are simply allies and the rest is all conspiracy bullshit. I would argue however it's actually the other way around that it's the U.S. and the Western world that controls Israel since it's essentially white/European colonialism of the Middle East like South Africa was.

[Tim Cornelis]

Israel does practice apartheid bordering on genocide.

To passively watch the genocide of the Palestinian people

In four decades, Israel killed less Palestinians than Syria's regime killed civilians in the last two years. There is no genocide. At the very worst we can speak of ethnic cleansing.

At the OP -- very good and fair question. There's an element missing in your thinking which seems to equate Israelis with Zionists -- the two are certainly not identical, and there are many Zionists who are not Jews.

I calculated that in with the explicit implicit racism. I wondering if anti-zionism rests on implicit anti-semitic presumptions. That they prioritise opposing Israel over other nation-states that are more oppressive, because of an implicit anti-semitism as Israel is a Jewish state. This doesn't presuppose thinking all Jews are Zionists.

[Sasha]

its a difficult problem to get to the root of,
there is definitely a undercurrent of implicit and explicit antisemitism in most anti-zionism (also among many of the radical left).
but, as Hajo Meyer argues in his book "the end of Judeaism" modern antisemitism (esp in the middle east and among those who feel related to what happens there) is something quite different from traditional/historic antisemitism and current Zionism and those Jews who dont actively oppose the (policies of) the state of Israel have def in part themselves to blame for it.
but then again, i cant see the rabid focus on the conflict of someone like dries van agt (former dutch Christian-democrat PM turned staunch Israel critic) as somewhat related to his Catholic background and the traditional antisemitism thats alive and well there. And if someone as Hayo Meyer not only shares regularly shares a stage with van Agt but also defends him from criticisms I get caught between a rock and a hard place..

[Rurkel]

From a communist perspective, all (bourgeois) states are as legitimate as the next, and all nation-states need to be disintegrated.

However, there's no denying that Israel practices policies of ethnic cleansing and apartheid that your regular bourgie democracies currently don't. Israel presenting itself as being a liberal-democracy plus rabidly pro-Israeli feeling in the US is the reason many leftists focus on Israel. When you're surrounded by the "omg poor Israel" propaganda, it's understandable why you would focus on Israel's atrocities.

After all, Israel is strongly supported by the US, so for US leftists struggle against Zionism can be perceived as struggle against the bourgeoisie at home.

I do not think that Israel practices "genocide", but I don't think that labelling it as practicing such is anti-semitic in itself.

On the other side, some leftists seem to adopt a "if you're anti-Zionist, then you can't be an anti-Semite, since anti-Zionism is Good, while anti-Semitism is Bad" attitude. This is obviously false (someone who thinks that the Jewish Conspiracy to Control the Entire World currently manifests itself in expansion of Israel's borders and worldwide influence is clearly both). Also, the "Zionism is responsible for the dissolution of the USSR, the economic crisis, the tsunami and the pimple on my ass"-type 'anti-Zionism' is also anti-Semitic, even if preceded by a "not all Jews are Zionist" disclaimer.

[DDR]

This train of thoug, to say that Antizionism is the same as antisemitism, is plain and utterly ridiculous. Using this reasoning, one can say that Zionism and the support of the state of Israel is antisemitism, since Palestinians are also semites. Semite is mostly used for jews, but not al semites are jews. By language, for example, Maltese people are semites.

[Sasha]

This train of thoug, to say that Antizionism is the same as antisemitism, is plain and utterly ridiculous. Using this reasoning, one can say that Zionism and the support of the state of Israel is antisemitism, since Palestinians are also semites. Semite is mostly used for jews, but not al semites are jews. By language, for example, Maltese people are semites.

thats the second time someone brought up that very stupid cop out, any dictionary and encyclopedia defines "antisemitism" as hatred of jews;

Definition of ANTI-SEMITISM : hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group

that its a slight misnomer because from an ethnic perspective not all semites are jews and not all jews are semites doesnt matter, thats like saying racism doesnt excist because from a genetic perspective there are no human "races".

[DDR]

@Psyco:

Yes, I know, that, the same is in Spanish:

antisemita.
1. adj. Enemigo de la raza hebrea, de su cultura o de su influencia. Apl. a pers., u. t. c. s.

But that doesn't chage that semites are a linguistic and etnological entity, which is mainly asociated with jews, but they are not the only ones. Because of that I prefer to use the term judeofobia instead of antisemitism, it's more clear and accurate. And that's my two linguistics cents