Socialist Party (SPGB) standing against BNP in Islington, North London

[The Idler]

Socialist Party standing against BNP in Islington, North London

BNP also standing

The official list of candidates was published at noon today.

As can be seen the BNP is standing. They seem to prefer North London. The last time we clashed directly with them, in the Kentish Town ward in Camden in 2010, they got 180 votes; we got 113.

The Islington Gazette phoned for details this afternoon. We sent them the manifesto, some details of the candidate (but no photo) and this soundbite:

Democracy won't mean much until we can actually run our own community,and that won't be possible until we collectively own and control the wealth of the world. That's why the Socialist Party is putting me up as a candidate in this by-election.

Title edited slightly to avoid confusion - Sentinel

[LeonJWilliams]

I don't mind the Socialist Party, much better than the SWP anyway.

The Socialist Party as with all left-wing parties in the UK really need to readdress what they are doing, I mean 113 votes? Who cares, it's pathetic and going nowhere fast.

Personally I think they would be better off folding and joining the Green Party of England & Wales, then join the internal faction 'Green Left'.

Certainly this would give them a massively increased chance of getting elected.

[Red Enemy]

Does the SPGB actually think it can effectively combat fascism with parliamentary cretinism?

[The Idler]

Does anyone actually think they can effectively combat fascism with abstentionist cretinism? 1933 anyone?

[Q]

I don't mind the Socialist Party, much better than the SWP anyway.

Since I also thought this was about the SPEW and I got a chat from someone who also thought that, I'll just point out here that this thread is about the SPGB. This is a small group that thinks we can get socialism if only enough people vote for it.

Perhaps the thread title could be amended to stop confusing everyone?

[GiantMonkeyMan]

I don't mind the Socialist Party, much better than the SWP anyway.

The Socialist Party as with all left-wing parties in the UK really need to readdress what they are doing, I mean 113 votes? Who cares, it's pathetic and going nowhere fast.

Personally I think they would be better off folding and joining the Green Party of England & Wales, then join the internal faction 'Green Left'.

Certainly this would give them a massively increased chance of getting elected.

But Green Party councillers are putting forward cuts just as vehemently as Tory and Labour councillers in certain councils. However, 'green' causes are certainly one focal point that is popular.

Another thing to mention... when people say 'The Socialist Party' I think of the Militant successors and members of the CWI 'Socialist Party (England & Wales)'. SPGB are a different matter altogether.

[Sentinel]

Since I also thought this was about the SPEW and I got a chat from someone who also thought that, I'll just point out here that this thread is about the SPGB. This is a small group that thinks we can get socialism if only enough people vote for it.

Perhaps the thread title could be amended to stop confusing everyone?

Done.

[Devrim]

Since I also thought this was about the SPEW and I got a chat from someone who also thought that, I'll just point out here that this thread is about the SPGB. This is a small group that thinks we can get socialism if only enough people vote for it.

Perhaps the thread title could be amended to stop confusing everyone?

Another thing to mention... when people say 'The Socialist Party' I think of the Militant successors and members of the CWI 'Socialist Party (England & Wales)'. SPGB are a different matter altogether.

It has only been their name for a little over one hundred years. You would think that they would show the CWI a bit of consideration and change it, so that people don't get confused.

Devrim

[Red Enemy]

Does anyone actually think they can effectively combat fascism with abstentionist cretinism? 1933 anyone?

Clever. No. You don't combat the bourgeoisie, or their reactionary sections, through bourgeois means.

[Hit The North]

Why is this in the Anti-fascism forum? It's not like the SPGB are standing on an anti-fascist ticket.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Now while we all love a bit of SPGB bashing, let's calm down and at least give credit where credit is due. Though I do think LeonJWilliams has a point but I think it would be better if they ran in a collation with the various other socialist parties instead of merging into the Green party, because historically speaking the approach of the SPGB has been tried for almost a century now and they have nothing to show for it. Even Trotskyist parties that aren't focused on electoral politics as much as the SPGB are get elected more often, so there is definitely a problem with their praxis.

[Red Enemy]

As far as I understand the SPGB, the aim is not to get elected.

Well, you clearly do not understand the SPGB. They view that they need to get elected into a parliamentary majority to achieve socialism.

[goalkeeper]

Personally I think they would be better off folding and joining the Green Party of England & Wales, then join the internal faction 'Green Left'.

Have you ever even read any of the SPGB's material? There is not way that would happen.

[goalkeeper]

because historically speaking the approach of the SPGB has been tried for almost a century now and they have nothing to show for it.

True, but Leninist "vanguard" parties also have zero to show for it in Western states for almost a century. There were some high points in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, but that all came and went.

[LeonJWilliams]

Have you ever even read any of the SPGB's material? There is not way that would happen.

I know it would never happen, I'm just saying that they would be better off doing this.

[goalkeeper]

I know it would never happen, I'm just saying that they would be better off doing this.

Erm, ok. Never mind that it would amount to a complete disavowing of their 100 year long political tradition.

[Red Enemy]

They want a vast majority of people to understand and want socialism before they have the big vote for socialism. At this point I think their electioneering is purely propagandistic and thus part of the former task.

They want something impossible to happen, so they will be elected into a parliamentary majority, and abolish capitalism on the spot. The SPGB is utopian to the very core.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

True, but Leninist "vanguard" parties also have zero to show for it in Western states for almost a century. There were some high points in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, but that all came and went.

Still, the SWP has more members, more links to trade unions, more elected representatives on the local level, and is more active, despite it's shit politics and bastardized "leninism". Electoral politics isn't even the main focus of the SWP's praxis and they still do it better than the SPGB. So the question is, SPGB, why do you suck at doing everything so much?

[goalkeeper]

Still, the SWP has more members, more links to trade unions, more elected representatives on the local level, and is more active, despite it's shit politics and bastardized "leninism". Electoral politics isn't even the main focus of the SWP's praxis and they still do it better than the SPGB. So the question is, SPGB, why do you suck at doing everything so much?

The SWP has a revolving membership door, joins alliances for elections, and runs on unsocialist populist "transitional demands" like "Fight Tory Cuts!" "Save the NHS" etc etc.

Sure, its more popular but as you said, it is "shit politics". The Labour party is pretty popular, has massive links to trade unions, lots of elected representatives. Sure, it has shit politics and is a bastardised socialism, but whatever.


The SPGB is not going to achieve anything and is theoretically quite weak. But i'll defend them because for the most part (from members I met) they seem to be a bunch of working class people genuinely committed to a society where the means of production are socialised. I'll take that over a bunch of Swappy students or "national organisers".

[LeonJWilliams]

Erm, ok. Never mind that it would amount to a complete disavowing of their 100 year long political tradition.

So?

Who cares about their history? They are a very small operation and the British public clearly doesn't give a toss, move with the times.