FARC Shining Path Naxalites

[Althusser]

Whether it be FARC in Colombia, Shining Path in Peru, the Naxalites in India...etc. Do you see the the smashing of capitalist states to guerrilla revolutionaries as an overall positive outcome compared to the continued existence of capitalism?

Whether or not you support these organizations alone, would you consider their victories as a positive for the peasants and workers in these nations compared to the conditions under capitalism?

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Why don't you just put up a poll if you want to know this? This topic has already been discussed to death so it it is simply a gauge of what percentage of the people who reply than it would be best to put up a poll.

Anyways, yeah. Capitalism has to die. The workers and peasants in these countries express themselves through these organizations which are dedicated to overthrowing capitalism. To embrace the status-quo out of some ultra-left idealism amounts to opportunism and doesn't belong in the mind of revolutionaries.

[hashem]

Shining Path and Naxalites are true revolutionaries but FARC has been corrupted for many years now. we shouldnt mix them.

[bricolage]

The workers and peasants in these countries express themselves through these organizations which are dedicated to overthrowing capitalism.

except when shining path massacred peasants that is.

[ind_com]

Not sure whether the FARC is corrupt or not. Also, the PCP or Shining Path of today is expanding once again by following a more careful line. The massacres happened decades ago and it seems that they have learned from the past.

Whether it be FARC in Colombia, Shining Path in Peru, the Naxalites in India...etc. Do you see the the smashing of capitalist states to guerrilla revolutionaries as an overall positive outcome compared to the continued existence of capitalism?

Whether or not you support these organizations alone, would you consider their victories as a positive for the peasants and workers in these nations compared to the conditions under capitalism?

These movements should not be understood as guerrilla wars alone. These are the most advanced form of class struggles today, which at least in the case of Naxalites has taken the form of mass-warfare in many places.

[ind_com]

I remember now that I was supposed to post some material on the Naxalite movement in some other thread. I am posting links to two articles here since this thread is new.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264738

http://sanhati.com/articles/1937/

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Not sure whether the FARC is corrupt or not. Also, the PCP or Shining Path of today is expanding once again by following a more careful line. The massacres happened decades ago and it seems that they have learned from the past.

A brutal massacre of unarmed peasants is not a "learning experience". Any group which commits crimes like that has much deeper problems. A communist movement structurally and theoretically is fighting for the liberation of workers and peasants and for a movement to use one's arms against those populations discredits its claim to be fighting for the class interests of the masses. People should really read more about the war crimes of the SL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucanamarca_massacre Is a party really a "Communist" movement if it treats peasants and workers even more harshly than the bourgeoisie does?

They also killed off communists of other tendencies like the Tupac Amaru (who were also less known for butchering unarmed peasants and workers).

Shining Path and Naxalites are true revolutionaries but FARC has been corrupted for many years now. we shouldnt mix them.

FARC was not responsible for the kinds of war crimes as the SL. I'm sure that fighters associated with their movement have committed their fair share of atrocities but nothing like that. How is FARC any more corrupted than these other groups?

[ind_com]

A brutal massacre of unarmed peasants is not a "learning experience". Any group which commits crimes like that has much deeper problems. A communist movement structurally and theoretically is fighting for the liberation of workers and peasants and for a movement to use one's arms against those populations discredits its claim to be fighting for the class interests of the masses. People should really read more about the war crimes of the SL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucanamarca_massacre Is a party really a "Communist" movement if it treats peasants and workers even more harshly than the bourgeoisie does?

Not 'more harshly'. In those areas, the bourgeois state carries out such massacres routinely. However, everything is a learning experience for communist revolutionaries, and as far as I know the PCP has presently denounced those actions as terrorist ones. There has been no such actions in the last decade which has seen a re-emergence of guerrilla war in Peru.

[bricolage]

Not 'more harshly'. In those areas, the bourgeois state carries out such massacres routinely. However, everything is a learning experience for communist revolutionaries, and as far as I know the PCP has presently denounced those actions as terrorist ones.

have they? I'd be interested to say a statement related to this.
but I'm not prepared to excuse massacres as a 'learning experience'.

There has been no such actions in the last decade which has seen a re-emergence of guerrilla war in Peru.

the guerilla war now is nothing compared to the heyday of the shining path and it's very unlikely it will ever get back to that position.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Not 'more harshly'. In those areas, the bourgeois state carries out such massacres routinely.

Of course the State massacres innocent people - Fujimori and other Peruvian presidents are famous for that - but if you are a campesino whose choice is between two forces which are willing to massacre you and your family, there is no good option.

However, everything is a learning experience for communist revolutionaries, and as far as I know the PCP has presently denounced those actions as terrorist ones.

Yes and this just means that the PCP has acknowledged the fact that they are utterly discredited as a movement. The theoretical leadership of the PCP (Guzman) admitted his responsibility in the whole affair and I'm not going to struggle for him to get out of jail on the vain hope that he and his kin somehow "learned". What kind of communist - no, what kind of person needs to "learn" that massacring peasant civilians is bad?

The group is strategically problematic, politically problematic and morally problematic.

There has been no such actions in the last decade which has seen a re-emergence of guerrilla war in Peru.

That is because the Shining Path is mostly effective at evading the State, smuggling drugs and ambushing soldiers. It's not the large armed movement it was in the 80s, probably in no small part because of the massacres and imprisonment of its leadership.