Are the lower classes worthy of sympathy?

[Beeth]

This is the question that my friends ask of me - they point to the loud, vulgar behavior of the lower classes, their violence (like getting drunk and beating up their wives), their striking ignorance, among other things. You can't just tell them the same old thing, that people are products of their environment etc. There is no excuse for bad behavior. Poverty may make you steal, not molest people or some such thing.

So how do you convince people (like my friends) that everyone deserves sympathy, including the worst?

[Flying Purple People Eater]

I hope you aren't referring to what I think you're referring to.

[Rurkel]

As opposed to the upper classes, that never molest people or otherwise mistreat others.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

What about the loud vulgar behavior of the upper class? Of their violence(Both against the rest of us and in their families. Rich people do coke and strangle prostitutes and dump their bodies in rivers, what about the upper class!). What about the upper classes striking ignorance and arrogance? I mean what are you supposed to say about that? The same old thing, product of their environment?

We live in a dog eat dog world where we're being thrown small scraps from the capitalists table for the majority of us to feed on. And the scraps are only getting smaller, going days without food makes it hard to think straight.

[Questionable]

The irony is that the upper-classes are usually the ones responsible for forcing ignorance on the rest of us in the first place.

Think about it. Right-wing politicians constantly decry the "culture of poverty" that urban black youths supposedly have, then they simultaneously insist that public schools and social services that help these impoverished groups escape their downtrodden lives need to be abolished so we can get rid of "parasites."

If we subscribe to the Marxist view of human nature, it is clear that people are not "moral" or "immoral" because of human nature, or free will, or any other philosophical concept taught by the ruling-class ideologies. They are formed by their material conditions in the social reproduction of society. Because the lower classes are the absolute bottom stratum of social reproduction in capitalism, of course they're going to have a harder time facing the temptations of crime and immorality than other more well-off sections of society. But this does not mean they are intrinsically good or bad, it means we need to struggle to improve their plight so they can rise above this.

[dodger]

This is the question that my friends ask of me - they point to the loud, vulgar behavior of the lower classes, their violence (like getting drunk and beating up their wives), their striking ignorance, among other things. You can't just tell them the same old thing, that people are products of their environment etc. There is no excuse for bad behavior. Poverty may make you steal, not molest people or some such thing.

So how do you convince people (like my friends) that everyone deserves sympathy, including the worst?

We rarely bathe--which can be problematic in a hot climate. Personally I would go with vulgarity any day of the week. As for beating up Wifey --late Wifey(no!)was a Brown belt Tae-Kwondo. No II, is adept as any man with a Bolo.(I have to sleep sometime!!)

Absolutely correct Beeth...there is no excuse for bad behaviour so I wont even try to excuse my own. Then again I never have done. The milk of human sympathy dried up years ago. Drier now as a nuns tit. Then again I never asked or got sympathy from others. BOO-Hoo....A product of my environment-sincerely hope NOT! Somehow I suspect I may be.....in which case I do not need any excuse. Ever.

[Zostrianos]

Poverty may make you steal, not molest people or some such thing.

Poverty creates a chain reaction that leads to all kinds of evils: gangs, drug abuse... you name it, most of the time it can be traced back to poverty. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: poverty is the root of all evil.

When you look at socially well-off countries, where almost everyone has a home and enough income for a decent living (like Scandinavian countries - ok, they're not socialist, but may be the next best thing to exist now), one thing you also notice is the near absence of crime. Poverty and crime go hand in hand nearly always.

[Beeth]

All this is clear to me as a leftist, but I am talking about people who simply conclude based on what they see. For instance, my friend tries to hire a cab, the driver acts like a rogue. He then goes to a factory where workers are vulgar and loud. Etc. etc. Point is, my friends (and I suspect many others) experience only bad things when confronted with the lower classes. So naturally, the very idea of socialism will be repulsive for them. People will be revolted by bad behavior, and our explanations are only going to sound like excuses to their ears.

[Thelonious]

Did you ever think how these "lower classes" may perceive your "high class" friends? They may seethe at the way your friends vulgarly flaunt their money and possessions. They may be offended by the way some "high class" people have been handed their riches on a silver platter. It is all a matter of perspective. Do the "upper class" have a monopoly on "pointing the finger?"

[Luís Henrique]

This is the question that my friends ask of me - they point to the loud, vulgar behavior of the lower classes, their violence (like getting drunk and beating up their wives), their striking ignorance, among other things. You can't just tell them the same old thing, that people are products of their environment etc. There is no excuse for bad behavior. Poverty may make you steal, not molest people or some such thing.

So how do you convince people (like my friends) that everyone deserves sympathy, including the worst?

Your friends are upper class?

Or just wage slaves deluded about themselves?

Luís Henrique

[Yuppie Grinder]

This is the question that my friends ask of me - they point to the loud, vulgar behavior of the lower classes, their violence (like getting drunk and beating up their wives), their striking ignorance, among other things. You can't just tell them the same old thing, that people are products of their environment etc. There is no excuse for bad behavior. Poverty may make you steal, not molest people or some such thing.

So how do you convince people (like my friends) that everyone deserves sympathy, including the worst?

I will continue to be a loud, obnoxious, filthy commoner and I don't care what uppity snobs like your friend think of it.

[#FF0000]

go fuck yourself beeth

[Yuppie Grinder]

I find posters who talk about the working class strictly in third person suspicious, especially when they post things like "So is it true all blue collar folks are stupid?".

[Jimmie Higgins]

I find posters who talk about the working class strictly in third person suspicious

I'd be more suspicious of someone who said "Us workers..." all the time.

Oh crap, we're all paranoid!!!

Anyway, I think the third person works - we speak of "humans" in the third person linguistically... and I think we're all humans.

[brigadista]

Beeth you need new friends

[Yuppie Grinder]

I'd be more suspicious of someone who said "Us workers..." all the time.

Oh crap, we're all paranoid!!!

Anyway, I think the third person works - we speak of "humans" in the third person linguistically... and I think we're all humans.

Yea I know. I'm talking more about people who talk about workers as something really foreign and separate from themselves all the time without meaning to.

[piet11111]

Oh crap, we're all paranoid!!!

Nope you are just more sensitive to reality.

[Zostrianos]

Furthermore, the whole "the upper class is more cultured" thing is a complete myth. I know people who dropped out of high school before getting a diploma, are working "lower class" jobs and yet have above average erudition, are interested in history and philosophy and are way above average in culture and intelligence.
One of them actually works as a waiter in an upper class restaurant\bar, and he told me once that the richer the patrons are, the more rowdy, brutish, and likely to get drunk and do stupid shit they are.
A lot of rich don't use their wealth to further their culture - they blow it on parties and extravagant luxuries, and in the end they probably end up being stupider and less educated than the average person.

[NGNM85]

Of course we sympathize with the working class. That's basically an essential prerequisite for being a Socialist. However, to play devil's advocate, it's worth mentioning that there is a tendency, among some Radicals, to idealize the working class.

[Dean]

go fuck yourself beeth

Verbal warning for trolling.