Kosovo's "Independence"

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Also if anyone wondered, the dude posted from Australia, not Yugoslavia...

Erm, that is weird. Why would he pretend to be Yugoslavian if he didn't even like Tito?

And it's almost ironic how he used his Anti-Stalinism to cover up his blatant fascism. That's not to say that any other Anti-Stalinist is guilty of this of course, since I am sure every tendency has had it's fuck ups

And I am vaguely curious, what were these other reactionary threads?

[Ismail]

Loads of 'my nationalism is better than your nationalism' shit going on in this thread. As if past atrocities committed by the ruling class representing one nationality against the workers of another means that the working class of the former should pay any sort of price today??

Pretty sure no one is defending the KLA or arguing that its "retributions" against Serbian workers are justified, so I don't see your point.

That is because Albanian thugs have committed centuries of Genocide to Serbs.

I think this statement sums up everything about your view. "Centuries of genocide"? Nations didn't even exist until the advent of capitalism.

Remember Albanian were treated better in Yugoslavia then in Albania. (After Rankovic)

I already addressed this. To repeat:

1. If you mean in terms of material goods, it's rather relative since, again, Kosovo was the poorest region of Yugoslavia by far (and in any case problems like illiteracy and blood feuds—not to mention unemployment—were still a concern in the 1970's whereas in Albania they were dealt with);
2. If you mean in terms of national rights, then that's obviously absurd. Albanians only won rights (in the form of concessions) by struggles and protests carried out by workers and students against the Yugoslav state.

As I said in an early post of mine in the topic, Ranković was used as a scapegoat by Tito. Milovan Đilas in Rise and Fall notes that the actions carried out against Albanians in Kosovo in the 1940's-60's were under Tito's command and watch.

What follows are you copying and pasting from Wikipedia. If you're going to cite a website, how about one which has some academic credibility? You're free to cite Serbian academics, I wouldn't mind.

Edit: Just realized he was banned. In PMs a few days back he was arguing that Libya under Gaddafi was a "workers' state," so yeah.

[Sasha]

Erm, that is weird. Why would he pretend to be Yugoslavian if he didn't even like Tito?

And it's almost ironic how he used his Anti-Stalinism to cover up his blatant fascism. That's not to say that any other Anti-Stalinist is guilty of this of course, since I am sure every tendency has had it's fuck ups

And I am vaguely curious, what were these other reactionary threads?

He probably was Serbian, just an Serbian living in Australia but maybe not, who knows. Also lots of strasserist/3th positionists have an intrest in Tito and gadaffi and Peron and such.

[Thirsty Crow]

Erm, that is weird. Why would he pretend to be Yugoslavian if he didn't even like Tito?

Maybe he did identify with the Yugoslav state as some warped Third Position logic (probably used the Third Camp as a cover reference). He might be a Serbian expat, and those, of course Croatian included, are some hardcore nationalists.

[Pravda]

Well, there is relatively big number of Serbs living in Australia. That could explain it (assuming he is Serb)

[Ismail]

In Ismail case i really dont understand his fetish for Albania.

Is it bad that I actually finished reading a book about Albania today and have some others (The Birth of Albania by Guy Nicola, Albania's National Liberation Struggle: The Bitter Victory by Reginald Hibbert, etc.) which I've recently acquired will soon read?

Not to mention the many other books I've read...

[Thirsty Crow]

Well, there is relatively big number of Serbs living in Australia. That could explain it (assuming he is Serb)

All the anti-Albanian chauvinism would be hard to explain if that wasn't the case.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Maybe he did identify with the Yugoslav state as some warped Third Position logic (probably used the Third Camp as a cover reference). He might be a Serbian expat, and those, of course Croatian included, are some hardcore nationalists.

Yea he was pretty bad at being a trot. I remember when he posted an article on "Stalinism" that was full of the basic trot stuff without any actual factual content to it and said that it was "proof" that "Stalinism"= bureaucratic collectivism. When others (including Trots and LeftComms mind you) called him out on his BS he couldn't respond and just muttered some nonsense about how Stalinist every one is, again including a wide range of people from Leftcomms, Maoists, and even other trots. Pity that he choose Trotskyism though, there are so many good trots that don't deserve to be associated with the likes of him.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Edit: Just realized he was banned. In PMs a few days back he was arguing that Libya under Gaddafi was a "workers' state," so yeah.

Can you post it here so we can laugh at his stupidity?

[Ismail]

Can you post it here so we can laugh at his stupidity?

I since deleted it but it was basically like:

Me: I heard you consider Gaddafi a socialist. Why? You know in 1988 he called for all Libyans to become bourgeois right?
YugoslavSocialist: [Wikipedia article]
Me: Isn't it a bit odd you consider Gaddafi a socialist, even though he was a Muslim and came to power in a military coup, but Stalin, an actual Marxist, not?
YugoslavSocialist: [Wikipedia article]
Me: How does socialism come about via a military coup? Gaddafi's doctrines don't even call for class struggle and have the opposite goal.
YugoslavSocialist: [no reply]

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

I since deleted it but it was basically like:

Me: I heard you consider Gaddafi a socialist. Why? You know in 1988 he called for all Libyans to become bourgeois right?
YugoslavSocialist: [Wikipedia article]
Me: Isn't it a bit odd you consider Gaddafi a socialist, even though he was a Muslim and came to power in a military coup, but Stalin, an actual Marxist, not?
YugoslavSocialist: [Wikipedia article]
Me: How does socialism come about via a military coup? Gaddafi's doctrines don't even call for class struggle and have the opposite goal.
YugoslavSocialist: [no reply]

So he was more of a World Worker's Party sort of Trot than a third camp trot, that is assuming that he is a trot and not just a moron who put left wing ideologies on a dart board and managed to hit the one farthest from the bull's eye

[Ismail]

There used to be a user called Barry Lyndon who thought everyone was awesome except Stalin (and Hoxha.) Trotsky? Great. Mao? Cool beans. Castro? Glorious. And he defended the Soviet revisionists to the end.

I think he's a FRSO type now.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

There used to be a user called Barry Lyndon who thought everyone was awesome except Stalin (and Hoxha.) Trotsky? Great. Mao? Cool beans. Castro? Glorious. And he defended the Soviet revisionists to the end.

I think he's a FRSO type now.

Is he in the revisionist one?

I kid, they are both revisionist of course :P

But yea, reading what some of those Brezhnevites types produce and call "Marxist Leninism" makes me want to cuddle up in a corner and cry over how far Anti-Revisionism has fallen.

[Young12Messiah73]

Well, Kosovo was part of Serbia for centurys and now it's taken away from them. I don't agree with their independence because then Serbs could request some parts of Croatia too.
Also Kosovo is under control of NATO which I definetly don't support.

[Ismail]

Well, Kosovo was part of Serbia for centurys

It was a part of the Ottoman Empire for about 470 years and part of Serbia for about 260 before then. And all this time the actual native inhabitants, the Albanians (and the Illyrians before them) continued to exist. Self-determination doesn't depend on what state controlled X land for Y amount of time, otherwise the borders of Austria-Hungary and the good ol' Russian Empire would have no reason to be changed.