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Thank you Killer Enigma for the article, "Three Positions on Gun Control." This is an amazing article. I'll ignore the factual errors, for example, the article includes the NRA propaganda that Hitler banned private ownership of guns. In fact, he only banned guns for Jews, and he made it easier for Germans to get guns and ammunition, abolishing the strict gun control laws that had been in place under the previous regime. One only has to Google "Gun Control under the Nazies" to find this out, something the Marxist author of this article, could not be bothered to do. However, the serious mistakes of this article are much more fundamental and intolerable.
Apparently, what Marx wrote from London in 1850 about armed workers in Germany who had been engaged in revolutionary fighting for two years during the Revolutions of 1848 and 1849 should be regarded as the one and only "Marxist" position on gun control.
Apparently, we should not notice that the world of the United States in 2013 is fantastically different from the world of Germany in 1850, but we should assume along with creationists that evolution is false and we always live in the world of 1850 Europe. Further, we should proclaim Marx, not as a scientist who analyzed specific social situations in his own time period, but a prophet, who made pronouncements for once and all time.
Opposition to gun control in all times and places is certainly not the "Marxist" View, but the view of gun fetishists.
The real Marxist view for today should be that the NRA is a terrorist organization that needs to be arrested and destroyed as soon as possible. To do this we need to organize a socialist party dedicated to defending all people against private gun owner/terrorists.
This is a viewpoint that reflects the needs of the working class in the United States in 2013 and not the "Marxist" viewpoint that mistakes the situation in Germany in 1850 for the situation in the United States in 2013.
Those who use out of context quotes from Marx or Lenin or whomever to justify the murder of six and seven year old school children are no friends of the working class or even themselves.
I don't think anyone here holds an absolute opposition to gun control.
I think every communist (whether Marxist or not) agrees on this already.
I don't see anyone justifying the murder of six and seven year-olds, not even the far-right gun fetishists.
Hi User Name,
Which socialist or communist party in the United States has identified the NRA as the leading terrorist organization in the United States? Which one has called for its immediate eradication and the jailing of all its leaders for aiding and abetting at least 1/2 million deaths and millions of shootings over the past 50 years?
I would guess marxist leninists would want you to keep the guns and use them to get the closest communist party into power and form a dictatorship of the party.
I basically agree with the article and personally like it's Pravda flavor. Gun control essentially accomplishes nothing considering, you've just legislated new black market commodities into existence thus further filling the pockets of those criminals the state hates so much. It also disarms the working class which no leftist of any stripe should support. I also like how it framed the situation that the American government kills tens of hundreds of people regularly, if not daily, with drones and so on and the American public is concerned about a school shooting that allegedly happened? Really? Get the VP to accost video game producers even? We can't, oh, idk, focus on mental healthcare, early detection of children, adolescents and adults who experience anti-social behavior with potential fatal harm towards themselves or others, education, things that would actually attempt to solve the 'problem' no, of course not.
Come little children, I'll take thee away, into a land of enchantment, come little children, the times come to play, here in my garden of magic.
"I'm tired of this "isn't humanity neat," bullshit. We're a virus with shoes."-Bill Hicks.
I feel the Bern and I need penicillin
I'm not very familiar with any communist or socialist parties, and as far as I know, the supposedly socialist/communist parties in the US are quite pathetic and weak.
None hopefully, because thats fucking stupid.
Gun violence is caused by some lobby; luck them up and problem solved
I suppose we can solve the problem of American Imperialism by locking up the New American Foundation. While we are at it, lets abolish this capitalism thing by rounding up the Cato institute. Problem solved.
You are clearly correct in that 10,000 ar-15s could not compare to one UAV but here is the thing: taking a military base wouldn't be a good idea. Taking a rail road, supplies depot, factory, ect would be possible. I am not even sure if that would be necessary but it that started happening or even if others started a civil war I would rather have a gun even if I were not involved.
Society does not consist of individuals but expresses the sum of interrelations, the relations within which these individuals stand. ~ Karl Marx
formerly Triceramarx
If you care to study the issue, you will find that the United States has the most guns per capita and the most gun deaths per capita. (from http://news.yahoo.com/gun-deaths-fam...pstories.html:)
The relationship between more guns and more gun deaths is both a simple logical and scientifically proven fact. It is also a fact that the NRA's lobbying against gun control has caused the enormous increase in guns per capita in the United States that has led to the epidemic in gun deaths.
Your denial of hard scientific facts is fucking stupid.
Imperialism is a quite different subject with its own socio-economic laws. Confusing the two is fucking stupid.
It's rather humorous to see how well the OPs argument -- shorn of the paeans to Stalin -- maps onto the standard 2nd Amendment maximalist argument. The 2nd Amendment types want a citizens militia to bring down the coming tyrannical government, the OP wants a working class militia to bring down the bourgeois government.
The reality is that the American public is armed. There is little chance of confiscation -- despite all the scare talk emanating from the NRA. The question I think we should be asking is how do we ensure that the working class doesn't hobble itself in self-destructive gun violence. The present fratricidal violence only serves to legitimate the militarization of police forces.
Red: I am not a terrorist. I own an M14, a Kel-Tec 9mm, and a HMR17 "Savage" (It's not all that savage, to be honest). I have owned an AK47, a .357 magnum, an SKS, a Colt 1911, etc... I do not use these weapons for intimidation, or the spread of fear, or to even harm living creatures. I practice with them because I want to be able to defend myself, and my family, if need be. I practice cause I do feel they could be handy in a revolution, if for nothing more than to make people feel safe.
Blue: Imagine this scenario- your socialist party is formed, they decide to abolish guns. You send your police force (the only possible way I can see to actually gather the guns) to retrieve the guns from the gun owners. Do the police have guns? If so, it seems hypocritical, and if they succeed, congratulations on your shiny new police state where only the cops and military have guns. If they don't have guns however, how do you expect them to retrieve the guns? Why the fuck would a gun owner listen to you if you had no means of enforcing your gun ban?
Everyone should read the Justfacts article on gun control. I can't post a link to it because of needing 25 posts to add a link in my post. Anyway, it shows pretty well that gun control does not work. In fact, I wrote a paper citing that almost entirely. Plus an article showing gun control to be a tool used by racists, consistently, to impede on the rights of minorities.
I am not a Marxist, but I doubt Marx would be impressed by your idea of what "The real Marxist view for today" is.
@EchoShock: You really should thank @Philosopher Jay for being an obliging foil. Although the NRA is demonstrably a reactionary organization no serious revolutionary will argue for the disarmament of the American people.
So what small steps would you accept to lower the fratricidal gun deaths that we are now experiencing? Is a ban on 30 round magazines and closing the gun show loophole really disarming the proletariat -- or making the defense of your family any less effective?
Red: Haha, yeah, I just get tired of reading that crap.
2nd paragraph: Personally, I feel that a ban on 30 round mags won't help the issue, in fact, I feel it could encourage people to learn how to use the "assault" rifles more accurately and efficiently, to make more use of what small amount of ammo they had. Also, in Oregon, there is no gun show loophole- not sure about other places. If you buy a gun, person to person, you don't need to get a background check, whether or not you're at a gun show.
To answer your question, I do have a solution that (in my mind) would work very well. I think that if a law was enacted that made it so all "assault" weapons had to be carried in a case/bag that was secured with a zipper or belt buckle (or something that made it equally difficult to open up) while it was being carried in public. That way, if anyone sees someone who is not abiding by that rule, they know that they have to get out of the situation. It empowers the would-be victims.
However, as an anarchist, I do think that if/when there is a revolution, there should be no gun control laws, and the safety of the communities would be left to the communities.
I don't know many of them, but the impression i have, is that only a small part of them are like that, portuguese people are usually open minded when it comes to politics.
[QUOTE]Hmm funny that, i've visited some of the most dangerous places around and have managed to avoid getting shot or stabbed (despite having guns and knives pointed in my face/chest) by using that thing, umm, common sense. And talking. Having guns never, ever, diffuses a situation. It's a lame excuse to own a gun bro.
Make who feel safe? I really struggle to see how going into a demo that has guns galore would make anybody feel safe. Would teenagers, children and the elderly really be attracted to that situation? C'mon. Again, this is lame.
If revolution is so popular, then the police won't shoot everyone. Even the East Germans didn't. No government will kill every worker, or a majority of workers, to stay in power because they'll have nobody to exploit in the end.
Sorry this is bullshit. Argue your point all you want, but don't you dare call people racists for opposing gun control when you know that is bullshit.
Seriously, if you wanna go and shoot in teh forest go ahead, but don't call people racists for no good reason. That's not on.
The CPUSA is essentially a mouth-piece for the state apparatus and the DNC.
They don't support serious "reform," or change in society, their "solution" is "get the government to fix everything."
You can tell this when they proclaim they want "more/higher/fair/taxation," and state programs, etc.
Something I feel is important to keep in mind, any time someone talks about "gun control," what they are essentially saying is "people need to be regulated, by threat/force, to not make, trade, or possess certain guns, and if they disobey, violence should be initiated against them."
If an individual were to say they want to "ban guns," the real-world result of this would be state agents forcefully confiscating guns from non-violent people; the entire thing is the addition of a threat of violence, or the initiation of violence, against non-violent, non-threatening people.
"Gun control laws" in this sense, of state regulation, are always tyrannical. It is just one person telling another person, who is not inherently threatening anyone, what kind of weapons they can have for self defense.
As an anarchist, I do not support any "gun control laws," period, now, or after "revolution," or whatever.
They are always the same thing: state attempting to control society.
Which group is trying to control 'society' doesnt matter to me, theyre inherently oppressive no matter what they claim their purpose for ruling me/everyone else is.
"You've been kicked out of #che-lives by Q (Chat is restricted for people from Opposing Ideologies. Cheers.)"
They called me an "anarcho capitalist," and kicked me out of the people's chat.
I don't see a way to ensure that any more than the state can ensure people won't commit murder.
"You've been kicked out of #che-lives by Q (Chat is restricted for people from Opposing Ideologies. Cheers.)"
They called me an "anarcho capitalist," and kicked me out of the people's chat.
If you mean state regulation, yes, I do.
"You've been kicked out of #che-lives by Q (Chat is restricted for people from Opposing Ideologies. Cheers.)"
They called me an "anarcho capitalist," and kicked me out of the people's chat.
I am having deja vu. Where have I heard this rap before?
Ah ladies and gentlemen here is living proof that "anarcho-capitalists" walk among us. All hail Rothbard!
6 posts so far, 4 of them on the gun control thread. Surprise.
