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All I remember is the part where Alex Jones starts screaming at Peter Joseph about STALINIST REEDUCATION CAMPS when PJ stated that a person transplanted from today's capitalist society into a resource based society would either commit suicide or act so anti-social that he would have to be readjusted.
I enjoy watching AJ ranting every now and then, he's a good laugh. He came across as a complete lunatic when he was screaming about "suicide murder pills" on Piers Morgan.
Can't be bothered to look through the Zeitgeist conspiracy shit to watch him though.
Look, I haven't watched the movies but according to the article Sam_b posted "The first film is an amalgamation of conspiracy theories: first of all, about religion, making all kinds of claims about the origins of Christianity; then a large middle section about 9/11, asserting that there were no terror attacks and they were in fact carried out by the US government."
When you assert that 9/11 was carried out by the US government you are most definitely in the realm of conspiracy theories.
The zeitgeist people made those "Why/what in the world are they spraying?" films, right, or was that someone else? I think there might be some decent credibility to that, but not much else that they've done. If I'm wrong here though, inform me otherwise, since I'm no zeitgeist expert or anything.
I dunno about spraying stuff but they've managed to form an international group of workers based on the principle of a moneyless, classless, stateless society. All the while not falling into the trap of being dictated to by leaders.
That sounds like something to me.
I was unaware of this. Thanks for the info.
Don't get me wrong there's a LOT wrong with them. The fact that they don't have a strategy means their members do tend to have very diverse thoughts about how to get from here to there. Some will be revolutionary while others will be reformist. The most they have seem to be unfeasible attempts at self sufficiency with calls to "get off the grid" and stuff like that.
I think the 2nd and 3rd films are worth a watch rather than the much maligned 1st film. Which incidentally they claim was a private venture by Peter Joseph and predates the Zeitgeist movement they've disowned it completely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X4hwQzTTL4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlPs10GSJjQ
I've watched Zeitgeist: Addendum and Zeitgeist: Moving Forward. I found them to be very interesting movies, actually. They seem to be more like anarcho-communists with technocratic tendencies. The third movie had some good points about human nature though.
This hit the nail on it's head.
When you talk about Zeitgeist though, you can't really compare it to any political ideologies. As they've said millions of times over, it's a technical oriented way of running the world. A technocracy in the truest meaning of the term.
As for them supporting Ron Paul, that's completely insane. Ron Paul is a free market libertarian. The Zeitgeist movement is a technocracy movement. I don't see how they can even attempt to be paired together.
There are other people who say Zeitgeisters are closet Communists. Well, I won't deny it, they definitely seem like the left-wing sympathy type of crowd, but honestly, if you think it through, it's more out of necessity than anything.
Basically, through technological unemployment, (automation of the workforce etc.) over the course of several years, the vast majority of the population will become jobless. If 60-75% of Americans suddenly become jobless, what is a society to do? These people cannot support themselves. There must be a way for resources to be distributed to the population. It's a problem that's stumped economists and futurists for decades.
Basically, the only option remaining is some version of a Resource Based Economy, where there's a transition into a cashless society and all remaining human work is to be done voluntarily. It's not Communist that the Zeitgeist movement wants a cashless system among other things, but out of necessity.
I hope that makes some sense. By the way, I've been following these guys for a few years now, and I really thing they have something promising going on. Peter Joseph is a brilliant orator, and their weekly radio show covers a really broad range of topics. Very intelligent people
I think you're giving them too much credit. Zeitgeist isn't really that mainstream...
Sure, it's insane/contradictory...
But in the beginning, before the whole Venus Project it was mostly orientated towards Ron Paul from what I observed in South-West Florida...
Even when the whole Venus Project thing was declared, I recall seeing a few Zeitgeisters in Occupy still support Ron Paul, although definitely support for Ron Paul waned after.
A few even became anarchists or anarchist sympathizers.
"My heart sings for you both. Imagine it singing. la la la la."- Hannah Kay
"if you keep calling average working people idiots i am sure they will be more apt to listen to what you have to say. "-bcbm
"Sometimes false consciousness can be more destructive than apathy, just like how sometimes, doing nothing is actually better than doing the wrong thing."- Robocommie
"The ruling class would tremble, and the revolution would be all but assured." -Explosive Situation, on the Revleft Merry Prankster bus
When they denouce both Capitalism and Communism, it's easier for them not to get red baited. Obviously they are on the radical left end of the political spectrum, to me they are Star Trek Commies.
I don't know I remember their second film being shown on a prime time TV slot in the UK. They had a lot of early momentum but have significantly stalled now.
This is the problem with their recruitment strategy, it's almost SWP esque. They count members as anyone who goes to their website and signs up for their mailing list. So technically I'm a member of zeitgeist even though I haven't even opened an e-mail from them in about 2 or 3 years. This and also the craziness of the first film means you're going to find a lot of 9/11 truthers and whack jobs from all over the political spectrum. Who consider themselves members of zeitgeist.
I can't be sure but I don't think this was the case in the US...
Either way, I think what I was trying to convey is that even if they had some buzz (on the internet, that's what I seen in the US) it was kinda similar to the whole Kony 2012 thing. People were talking about it, some may have "joined" and are members to this day, but in recent times they've been mostly "under the radar"/invisible. Part of it has to do with the way that the Venus Project is like: It has a plan for a new society but not much in how to get there so not much is going on to achieve it.
"My heart sings for you both. Imagine it singing. la la la la."- Hannah Kay
"if you keep calling average working people idiots i am sure they will be more apt to listen to what you have to say. "-bcbm
"Sometimes false consciousness can be more destructive than apathy, just like how sometimes, doing nothing is actually better than doing the wrong thing."- Robocommie
"The ruling class would tremble, and the revolution would be all but assured." -Explosive Situation, on the Revleft Merry Prankster bus
I'm not sure what the next step could have possibly been for them other than starting a political party so it was bound to stall just as occupy was bound to stall. Unlike occupy however, they haven't completely evaporated.
I don't think Kony 2012 is a good comparison as the Kony thing was a single issue which the authorities wanted to solve. Whereas TZM is about building a new society, any of their members going into it with their eyes open would realize that takes time, which is probably why they haven't disappeared like the others.
Of course, but it did stall as you say.
Some are still somewhat stalled, from what I gather they seem to like to "get-into" political movements like Occupy.
Some however have come to revolutionary conclusions, I know 2 who became anarchist sympathizers; not sure if they abandoned the Venus Project or if they have incorporated to their anarchist symphaties seeing an anarchist revolution of sorts as the means to that ideal society.
"My heart sings for you both. Imagine it singing. la la la la."- Hannah Kay
"if you keep calling average working people idiots i am sure they will be more apt to listen to what you have to say. "-bcbm
"Sometimes false consciousness can be more destructive than apathy, just like how sometimes, doing nothing is actually better than doing the wrong thing."- Robocommie
"The ruling class would tremble, and the revolution would be all but assured." -Explosive Situation, on the Revleft Merry Prankster bus
TVP/ Resource Based Economy is an anarchist setup. That's what initially got me so interested in the concept.
I think they said at one point that computers would be in charge of higher level societal decision making. Sounds very sci-fi/dystopia-esque if you ask me.
Then again, it's purpose is to alleviate as much human control as possible. This includes liberating humans from most labour, but does it also extend as far as governance?
Also, they said that the Zeitgeist movies Peter Joseph made are separate from the Zeitgeist movement itself, and doesn't represent the group as a whole.
As for why they have the same name, I'm not really sure. I think Peter Joseph just wanted to make the movement's name something that people were familiar with, and at the time, his movies were pretty popular.
Well I think Zeitgeist, from my experience, has made the people to think about the real world issues. And I can't really say much bad about them, only the fact how they used the scientific sources, in the end they had a conflict with The Venus Project, which moved on independently to research the new possible future. Since the society in general is so misinformed about the world problems or the causes of these problems, I would still use Zeitgeist or even The Venus Project as tools for bringing up the subjects. And if Zeitgeist or The Venus Project claims to not be either politically left or right, we should analyse the purpose of it. From what I know, The Venus Project claims how insufficient are politicians with their lack of professional knowledge and I think this 'political stereotype' has went across the modern society where most governments are corrupt and simply don't care on fundamental changes. This of course might not be true, but I guess we face this as a consequence of not letting the public more informed and active in the political debates or activities.
I would support The Venus Project more, because they claim that they are not really technocrats, in a way that they give the real governance to all people, something as direct-democracy. While the Technocrats advocate for governance of professionals and skilled people. I would advise for those who are interested to look into The Venus Project and one of their movies: Paradise or Obvilion, you can find it on YouTube or on their website thevenusproject.com
The general public is completely unaware of how the world system works, plus they even don't know much about politics as only what TV tells them or the media, but nothing from theory. So those documentaries might help people to start thinking and lead them to conclusions, even it might lead them to the left-wing movements in the end as well. But I don't think we should care much on if Zeitgeist should or should not claim it self as left-wing. Important part is the message that they give out to the public.
I think the Zeitgeist movement has a great achievement in propaganda. We must be honest: the term communism doesn't have a positive meaning in the most countries. And the Zeitgeist movement rejects the term communism, but promotes the classless society without a private property. Certainly they do not know how to achieve it but they are advertising the classless society in very convenient way for many people.
I never watch their movies. I am very ignorant about Zeitgesits. I am still curious what is it about.
OWS was way larger & more significant than the "Zeitgeist movement", in the USA. I know about Zeitgeist, but that's only because I'm a political nerd. It's essentially non-existent as a visible movement and for the most part always was.
"Win, lose or draw...long as you squabble and you get down, that's gangsta."
I enjoyed that also, however Alex does have a point about "suicide murder pills" as I take one of the type he speaks of to deaden nerve pain which is also used as a anti-depressant, it's called Nortriptyline.
From the long list of side effects:
"You may have thoughts about suicide when you first start taking an antidepressant such as nortriptyline, especially if you are younger than 24 years old. Your doctor will need to check you at regular visits for at least the first 12 weeks of treatment."
I just did some quick research and only two people committed murder while on Nortriptyline."
I've been taking it for about 10 years and I have never attempted suicide or tried to kill anyone.
However there are other anti-depressants that have far worse track records.
Anyway I agree with Alex Jones as when workers occupy and take over their workplaces they will need guns for protection.
Let's occupy the world.
