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I'm done talking to you, you don't address any arguments but just repeat stupid infantile soundbites ad nauseam. You either don't understand what I write, are unwilling to engage with it or you're just trolling. In either case, good you're restricted.
"Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit
Of that forbidden tree..."
- John Milton -
"The place of the worst barbarism is that modern forest that makes use of us, this forest of chimneys and bayonets, machines and weapons, of strange inanimate beasts that feed on human flesh"
- Amadeo Bordiga
I addressed you by saying that hard core gangsta foot soldiers care more for power and control than capital. You are right when you say that capitalism is the initial cause, but these groups can morph into entirely new types of entities (and yes not all gangs are incurably evil and yes some movements arrose from what we now call gangs, although using the triads as an example is really idiotic.)
Why? What use is 'power and control' alone? Can you back up this statement?
How do these gangs not operate as capitalist entities? This implies the possibility of non-capitalist relationships existing within Capital, something you'll have a hard case arguing for.
"Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit
Of that forbidden tree..."
- John Milton -
"The place of the worst barbarism is that modern forest that makes use of us, this forest of chimneys and bayonets, machines and weapons, of strange inanimate beasts that feed on human flesh"
- Amadeo Bordiga
They act as semi capitalist entities yes, but fashion themselves more as medieval knights.
... I seriously doubt any gangbanger kid fashions him or herself as a 'medieval knight'. Besides, how does a serious criminal gang function as a 'semi-capitalist' entity? It's simply an enterprise in the illegal sector of the economy, resembling the most ruthless of large corporations more and more (including the strong division of labor, complex logistical structure, business strategies, etc.) as they grow in prominence. Take a look at the mexican cartels for example.
As I said in another thread, the higher you move up the chain within a criminal organisation, the closer you get to bourgeois networks of the legal sector of the economy (prominent real estate developers, bankers, top lawyers, etc.) whilst the lower layers of a criminal organisation (drug runners, for example) are illegalised proletarians who still live shit lives, spiced up with a pseudo-tribalist ideology, much like how workerist ideology serves to spice up the blue collar proletarian's world and how the carreerist/american dream ideology spices up that of the white collar professional.
The antipathy people feel towards certain practices or phenomena often obscures their vision of how these things function, structurally speaking. But to be honest, when you look at a world were perfectly legal corporations drive thousands of their lands, nation states bomb millions into oblivion and all life is massacred and sucked dry in the name of Capital, a douchebag attitude that comes with a particular position in the economic constellation is the least thing to be offended by, i'd say.
"Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit
Of that forbidden tree..."
- John Milton -
"The place of the worst barbarism is that modern forest that makes use of us, this forest of chimneys and bayonets, machines and weapons, of strange inanimate beasts that feed on human flesh"
- Amadeo Bordiga
Ugh. These weird racialized "gansta" references are fucking awful.
If you think any of this "petty tribalism" is unique to "gangstas" you must live in a wonderful bubble that I'd love to visit some day. The flip side of that being, if you don't think that gangstas are part of communities, don't create networks of support, etc., then I think you must hold a pretty MTV view of the subject. I'm not saying that in defense of gangsterism, rather, I think that this has to be talked about in waaaay more specific terms to be of any value, otherwise you could change every instance of "gangster" in this thread to "punk" with very little consequence.
The life we have conferred upon these objects confronts us as something hostile and alien.
Formerly Virgin Molotov Cocktail (11/10/2004 - 21/08/2013)
Mideaval knight no, repping their crew and block yes(which to the average idiot means more than money) We're not saying that the gangsta mentality makes sense, just that it exists in some lower level recruits . You hit the nail on he head with everything else though ( that is until a crazy mothafucka rises in the ranks and leads his crew in an insane 3 month reign of terror)
Which, as Virgin Molotov Cocktail pointed out above, is not unique to some 'gangster mentality'. Football firms, student fraternities, regionalist and nationalist movements and corporate culture all do the same thing, though in different terms.
Which never happens, and for a reason. Even the most gruesome acts of terror perpetrated by the Mexican cartels, ie. public beheadings and dropping the heads in enemy territory, serve a 'rational' purpose, the defense of territory, demoralizing the enemy, ensuring rank & file discipline (much like how Roman decimation worked) and discouraging defection or recruitment by the competition.
"Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit
Of that forbidden tree..."
- John Milton -
"The place of the worst barbarism is that modern forest that makes use of us, this forest of chimneys and bayonets, machines and weapons, of strange inanimate beasts that feed on human flesh"
- Amadeo Bordiga
Fuck people we're getting off point. If anything gangs are extreme fraternity. No matter the reasons behind it a mindset is a mindset.
Most present day gangs extort more than they support.
No doubt at all. By the same token, I'd say the same about most fraternal organizations.
The life we have conferred upon these objects confronts us as something hostile and alien.
Formerly Virgin Molotov Cocktail (11/10/2004 - 21/08/2013)
You're fucking with me right?
When understood in a holistic sense it's true, though. Sure, a University frat, for example, doesn't necessarily carry out violence directly (oh, wait, I guess endemic rape probably counts), but their insulation from violence is premised on their relationship with institutionalized forces of violence and repression.
The life we have conferred upon these objects confronts us as something hostile and alien.
Formerly Virgin Molotov Cocktail (11/10/2004 - 21/08/2013)
You seem to have your head jammed way up your revolutionary ass. Fuck this conversation.
So... Your point being?
A mindset is never 'just a mindset' and saying 'whatever the reasons behind it' is just a convenient way of intelligently engaging with a phenomenon. Its important to deconstruct stupid mystifications, whether of a political, racial, national or (sub)cultural nature so I don't see how that's off point. It's the whole purpose of the thread no?
"Of Man's first disobedience, and the fruit
Of that forbidden tree..."
- John Milton -
"The place of the worst barbarism is that modern forest that makes use of us, this forest of chimneys and bayonets, machines and weapons, of strange inanimate beasts that feed on human flesh"
- Amadeo Bordiga
Well this thread indeed hasn't been very constructive.
I don't think everything is the result of capitalist oppression.
Stunning argument. I'm certainly convinced. [/sarcasm]
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