The FARC-EP and the ELN.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

What are they like? All I know is that FARC is Marx-Leninist and has a bit of a personality cult over this one guy in a similar way to the RCPUSA and Avakian (He's all over their website doing poses http://farc-ep.co/?cat=1), and ELN seems to be a Colombian Zapatista movement. How connected are they to the proletariat/peasantry of Colombia? Should we support them? I've seen members of this board both praise them and call them 'absolute scum'. I've read some pretty disturbing things about FARC on their wikipedia article, but considering the validity of such a source, I'd like to have a multitude of opinions before I start making sweeping judgements. P.s. My computer and keyboard aren't functioning properly for this website, so please don't mind the lack of paragraphs.

[Grenzer]

FARC is basically just a group of apolitical thugs, much like the Shining Path(although they might said to be a marginal improvement over the Shining Path. To my knowledge FARC doesn't go out of its way to employ terrorism and execute workers and peasants).

There is not much ideological going on. Many members of FARC were recruited as child soldiers, so life in FARC is all they know and they fight for no reason other than that. It's created a self-perpetuating cycle of violence. They sustain themselves to a large degree through the drug trade. They may have been ideological at one point(although being Stalinists, that's not really saying anything), they have long sense abandoned almost all genuinely ideological pretenses.

FARC should be condemned, and there is nothing about it worth supporting.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

FARC is basically just a group of apolitical thugs, much like the Shining Path(although they might said to be a marginal improvement over the Shining Path. To my knowledge FARC doesn't go out of its way to employ terrorism and execute workers and peasants).

There is not much ideological going on. Many members of FARC were recruited as child soldiers, so life in FARC is all they know and they fight for no reason other than that. It's created a self-perpetuating cycle of violence. They sustain themselves to a large degree through the drug trade. They may have been ideological at one point(although being Stalinists, that's not really saying anything), they have long sense abandoned almost all genuinely ideological pretenses.

FARC should be condemned, and there is nothing about it worth supporting.

Moralism moralism moralism. Getting past this, which is a greater threat to the state, the morally rigthous parties of Europe who restrain themselves to non-violence, or FARC. The objectively correct answer is Farc, and it is for this reason that we must support them. And you have no proof of them abandoning ideological pretenses, the only ones who have abandoned ideological pretenses are those who pretend that socialism can be established peacefully, and is not the violent extermination of the oppressor class by the hands of the oppressed.

[Let's Get Free]

FARC-EP is a viciously anti-working class paramilitary group. I don't know too much about the ELN, but the do seem to be considerbly less brutal than FARC, although they are clearly not avowedly organizing for socialist revolution either.

[ind_com]

What are they like? All I know is that FARC is Marx-Leninist and has a bit of a personality cult over this one guy in a similar way to the RCPUSA and Avakian (He's all over their website doing poses http://farc-ep.co/?cat=1), and ELN seems to be a Colombian Zapatista movement. How connected are they to the proletariat/peasantry of Colombia? Should we support them? I've seen members of this board both praise them and call them 'absolute scum'. I've read some pretty disturbing things about FARC on their wikipedia article, but considering the validity of such a source, I'd like to have a multitude of opinions before I start making sweeping judgements. P.s. My computer and keyboard aren't functioning properly for this website, so please don't mind the lack of paragraphs.

I think I read somewhere that thousands of peasants moved to FARC-held territories from the Colombian Government-held territories, when they got the opportunity. Please look for sources yourself. Also, there is a piece by Chomsky where he defended the FARC and answered to some accusations against it.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Thanks for the responses guys!

FARC is basically just a group of apolitical thugs, much like the Shining Path(although they might said to be a marginal improvement over the Shining Path. To my knowledge FARC doesn't go out of its way to employ terrorism and execute workers and peasants).

There is not much ideological going on. Many members of FARC were recruited as child soldiers, so life in FARC is all they know and they fight for no reason other than that. It's created a self-perpetuating cycle of violence. They sustain themselves to a large degree through the drug trade. They may have been ideological at one point(although being Stalinists, that's not really saying anything), they have long sense abandoned almost all genuinely ideological pretenses.

FARC should be condemned, and there is nothing about it worth supporting.

Yes, that's what I was suspecting . While your response is very much appreciated, would you be able to cite any sources for some of the things you claim the FARC-EP has commited?

Moralism moralism moralism.

Could you define moralism for me in this context? Because if moralism equates to not supporting paramilitary groups who have a history of child-conscription and drug-trafficking, then I don't see why we should be against it. Supporting a group simply because they are 'revolutionary' is a bit of a shot to the foot, as is not giving critiques on movements because we 'shouldn't tell them how to have their revolution'. Being critical of organisations and movements is absolutely essential to marxist analysis, and if an organisation is antagonistic towards the working-class and poor then it shouldn't be supported. If you call that moralism, then you could just as easily accuse communism itself of being moralistic - e.g 'all those starving children in Africa? Who gives a crap, you damn moralist!'

Then again, I have yet to see any proof of this so I'll stay neutral.

FARC-EP is a viciously anti-working class paramilitary group. I don't know too much about the ELN, but the do seem to be considerbly less brutal than FARC, although they are clearly not avowedly organizing for socialist revolution either.

Yeah, they seem a lot like an indigenous rights group looking for wider support. There are pictures of teenagers with machine-guns when you google their name, however, so I'm heavily suspicious of them.

I think I read somewhere that thousands of peasants moved to FARC-held territories from the Colombian Government-held territories, when they got the opportunity. Please look for sources yourself. Also, there is a piece by Chomsky where he defended the FARC and answered to some accusations against it.

I see, I see! This is interesting. I will look for Noamy's article right away.

[Art Vandelay]

Moralism moralism moralism. Getting past this, which is a greater threat to the state, the morally rigthous parties of Europe who restrain themselves to non-violence, or FARC. The objectively correct answer is Farc, and it is for this reason that we must support them. And you have no proof of them abandoning ideological pretenses, the only ones who have abandoned ideological pretenses are those who pretend that socialism can be established peacefully, and is not the violent extermination of the oppressor class by the hands of the oppressed.

Who the fuck is arguing anything different; moralism, moralism, moralism? Strawman, strawman, strawman.

[Jack]

What are they like? All I know is that FARC is Marx-Leninist and has a bit of a personality cult over this one guy in a similar way to the RCPUSA and Avakian (He's all over their website doing poses http://farc-ep.co/?cat=1), and ELN seems to be a Colombian Zapatista movement. How connected are they to the proletariat/peasantry of Colombia? Should we support them? I've seen members of this board both praise them and call them 'absolute scum'. I've read some pretty disturbing things about FARC on their wikipedia article, but considering the validity of such a source, I'd like to have a multitude of opinions before I start making sweeping judgements. P.s. My computer and keyboard aren't functioning properly for this website, so please don't mind the lack of paragraphs.

The "personality cult" you think you're seeing is their former leader who was killed this year, it's no different than the Popular Front for The Liberation of Palestine's armed brigade being named after a Palestinian martyr, the website of former Afghan Maoist anti-Soviet partisans contains numerous similar things, pretty much any armed group will have something similar.

Wikipedia isn't exactly a trustworthy source, it's very politicized on pretty much any article that can be twisted (i.e the page on Noam Chomsky is 2/3rd about him being an anarchist despite that being a very very small part compared to his actual contributions).

The FARC has some distance from the urban proletariat of Colombia but much support from the rural peasantry in areas where they serve as a counter balance to drug cartel rule or corrupt government (the central government of Colombia has almost no influence outside cities).

FARC is basically just a group of apolitical thugs, much like the Shining Path(although they might said to be a marginal improvement over the Shining Path. To my knowledge FARC doesn't go out of its way to employ terrorism and execute workers and peasants).

They are not apolitical, if they were apolitical they would've stepped down in 1991 or when M19 dissolved itself. Life in the jungle isn't exactly glorious, and they teach their soldiers about Marxism-Leninism.

There is not much ideological going on. Many members of FARC were recruited as child soldiers, so life in FARC is all they know and they fight for no reason other than that. It's created a self-perpetuating cycle of violence. They sustain themselves to a large degree through the drug trade. They may have been ideological at one point(although being Stalinists, that's not really saying anything), they have long sense abandoned almost all genuinely ideological pretenses.

The "child soldiers" thing is another myth, do you real expect complete honesty from the capitalist media about a Marxist-Leninist guerrilla army? Their involvement in the drug trade is limited to extorting cartels and drug manufacturers, they don't want an all out war with the cartels where they'll be left by the government to just kill each other. At the same time it is the cartels that provide the main source of funding for many paramilitary forces.

You pretty much seem to be talking out of your ass concerning the FARC-EP in the name of political rhetoric (feeling the need to slam "Stalinists") and buying into bourgeois media onslaught concerning the FARC-EP as long as it suits your own ultraleft politics.

FARC should be condemned, and there is nothing about it worth supporting.

A revolutionary army of the people should be supported, especially when the alternative is the corrupt puppet Colombian government. Do I line up with FARC 100% ideologically? No, I have my differences, but it's not hard to be practical about it and see that the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia is the best alternative for the Colombian people compared to the bourgeois democratic US puppet government half in bed with the CIA half in with drug cartels.

[Hiero]

FARC is basically just a group of apolitical thugs, much like the Shining Path(although they might said to be a marginal improvement over the Shining Path. To my knowledge FARC doesn't go out of its way to employ terrorism and execute workers and peasants).

There is not much ideological going on. Many members of FARC were recruited as child soldiers, so life in FARC is all they know and they fight for no reason other than that. It's created a self-perpetuating cycle of violence. They sustain themselves to a large degree through the drug trade. They may have been ideological at one point(although being Stalinists, that's not really saying anything), they have long sense abandoned almost all genuinely ideological pretenses.

FARC should be condemned, and there is nothing about it worth supporting.

Are you from the Colombian army?

Yes, that's what I was suspecting . While your response is very much appreciated, would you be able to cite any sources for some of the things you claim the FARC-EP has commited?

Here you go:
https://www.cia.gov/