Sex Work

[Rational Radical]

After reading an article on libcom about a book called "Happy Hookers" which is about females who enjoy prostituting and offers an interesting point of view of the value of prostiutes in society. I'm conflicted on this issue because the article and comment section made great arguements but I guess that my moralism is preventing me to consider it as legitimate as other forms of labor and I wouldn't want my daughter to participate in it. I'm aware that in the Spanish Revolution Anarchist collectivized the brothels so in a communist or anarchist society would prostitution exist or is it only the result of not being able to get a job? Should leftists fight for this cause or do we see the prostitute as a victim of a profit driven economic sytem? Or is this book using socialist rhetoric to legitimize one of the ills of capitalism(or is it even an ill?)?What are my fellow revlefters opinions on this issue?

[#FF0000]

I think people who choose to be sex workers are exploited the same as any other worker. There's obviously a difference between someone who is saying "welp, I need a job, might as well be this one" and someone who is only a prostitute because they are at the absolute end of their rope and who are acting out of desperation, you know?

I'm not sure how to deal with sex workers, though. I'd think legalizing prostitution would do some good in removing the stigma around sex work and thus making it easier for workers to fight for their needs, organize, get healthcare, etc. etc. etc.

[Rational Radical]

I definitely think it's wrong that prostitutes who work out of desperation are arrested simply because they're trying to provide for themselves and their families and I do acknowledge their exploitation by their boss or "pimp" but just like you I don't know my opinion on their labor as of yet. I apologize if I come off bigoted or "prolier than thou", I'm just curious about if we should acknowledege prostitution as a legitimate form of labor or strictly focus on the collectivization of the means of production that will provide jobs for all.

[l'Enfermé]

Yes I'm sure so many women are just so glad and satisfied that they are driven by desperation to lose their last shreds of dignity and sell their own bodies to perverted strangers!

[#FF0000]

I apologize if I come off bigoted or "prolier than thou", I'm just curious about if we should acknowledege prostitution as a legitimate form of labor or strictly focus on the collectivization of the means of production that will provide jobs for all.

They provide a service the same as anyone else and I don't see any good that could come out of saying "Nah you guys keep working off the grid"

Yes I'm sure so many women are just so glad and satisfied that they are driven by desperation to lose their last shreds of dignity and sell their own bodies to perverted strangers!

There are certainly women in this situation -- and that's despicable. But there are also women who choose to be sex workers and just see it as another job.

[Ostrinski]

If only 9 were here. She was always the voice of reason on the subject imo.

[campesino]

sex work is work. It is more valuable than some of the other services, that are considered work. Prostitutes are absolutely worthy of having control over their means of production.

[ComradeOm]

There are certainly women in this situation -- and that's despicable. But there are also women who choose to be sex workers and just see it as another job.

I've never seen anything to suggest that these are anything more than a tiny, tiny minority of sex workers. The odd woman who wanders into the industry and writes a book about how she enjoyed it should not detract from the truly desperate position of most prostitutes. The industry is typically one of shocking exploitation

This is not something that should be encouraged. Legalising and regulating prostitution, perhaps while continuing to ban solicitation and pimping, makes sense in that it improves the lot of sex workers and avoids further victimising them. Ultimately however nobody should be put in the position where they have to sell their body. Obviously that should not be necessary in a socialist society

[l'Enfermé]

#FF0000, I don't think that more than an insignificant fraction of women would just "choose" to prostitute themselves. Who would choose such an undignified profession if they were able to secure a living through other, less degrading, means?

[#FF0000]

#FF0000, I don't think that more than an insignificant fraction of women would just "choose" to prostitute themselves. Who would choose such an undignified profession if they were able to secure a living through other, less degrading, means?

Probably because they don't feel it's any more degrading than working at McDonald's.

I've never seen anything to suggest that these are anything more than a tiny, tiny minority of sex workers. The odd woman who wanders into the industry and writes a book about how she enjoyed it should not detract from the truly desperate position of most prostitutes. The industry is typically one of shocking exploitation

I don't doubt at all that most women in prostitution globally aren't doing it because they sought that employment. But I don't think criminalizing prostitution, which literally makes these women criminals and forces them off the grid and into the fringe of society is going to fix that.

I don't think we disagree, though.

Ultimately however nobody should be put in the position where they have to sell their body

Agreed.

[campesino]

#FF0000, I don't think that more than an insignificant fraction of women would just "choose" to prostitute themselves. Who would choose such an undignified profession if they were able to secure a living through other, less degrading, means?

if you have a really good imagination, or don't care about how fat/ugly/old you're clients are, you can enjoy having sex and making a decent wage.

Sadly, capitalism and society put so much stress on prostitutes: pimps, abuse, STDs, shaming, the dangers of being part of the underground economy.

[NGNM85]

Prostitution will exist as long as humans exchange currency, or material goods, and engage in recreational sex. There's nothing wrong with it, in the abstract. The problem is that we live in a capitalist society where people are forced by economic necessity to sell their bodies. In a Socialist society, again, provided there is some kind of currency, it's likely people will exchange labor vouchers, or what-have-you, for sex. I see no reason why this should be disallowed, again; presuming it's a free choice between consenting adults, free from coercion, or compulsion. In Hungary, I believe, prostitutes have a union. (Don't quote me on that.) I see no reason why organizing a brothel, or whatever you want to call it, along Anarchosyndicalist lines, would be that different from doing so in a steel mill, for example. In principle, I don't think there's much of a difference.

[Nihilist Scud Missile]

So long as the sex worker can live comfortably without being a sex worker then the choice is made from free will. If a person cannot live comfortably without being a sex worker then it is the economic system forcing them into it. Drug addicts shouldn't be sex workers. People who need to pay their rent and buy food/shelter, who have no other choice but to work in the sex industry shouldn't be sex workers. This makes up a large percentage of sex workers. It's a sort on invisible coercion - like wage slavery. Many of us don't have a choice but to work for a boss in order to survive. We can't see that or toutch it but it's coercion non the less.

[Jason]

Noam Chomsky came out on video and said pornography was "exploitation of women". When asked if the sex industry could be improved, he said something like, "You can't make a better form of child abuse, you can only end child abuse.". Also, when asked whether women consented to the job, he compared it to women consenting to work in sweatshops.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

I can't speak with any real authority as I'm not a sex worker and don't know anyone who is a sex worker. So on a purely intellectual / hypothetical level, I would think that removing the stigma of immorality and illegality would be a good first step (try and remove the element of abusive pimps and forced drug-addiction that sometimes gets an airing on a thoughtful news piece but is never solved).
While the demand exists from men then eradication seems unlikely, better to try and bring it out of the shadows and allow those who may actually choose this work to do so safely and those who don't to have an easier way out.

[Vanguard1917]

#FF0000, I don't think that more than an insignificant fraction of women would just "choose" to prostitute themselves. Who would choose such an undignified profession if they were able to secure a living through other, less degrading, means?

They may choose it over kinds of work that pay less, such as cleaning toilets or flipping burgers. There is ultimately a large degree of economic desperation that drives the overwhelming majority of prostitution, but there are many women who, under similarly desperate economic circumstances, do not enter the sex industry. Of course we shouldn't 'subjectivise' the problem -- which is first and foremost related to economic poverty (how many daughters of the ruling class become prostitutes in brothels?) -- but we probably need to avoid moral disdain and accept that prostitution is a fact of life under capitalism, if we are to choose to offer any kind of political solidarity to sex workers.

[Vanguard1917]

Legalising and regulating prostitution, perhaps while continuing to ban solicitation and pimping, makes sense in that it improves the lot of sex workers and avoids further victimising them.

I'm unsure as to how banning soliciting would 'improve the lot' of prostitutes.

[thriller]

Porn = sex work, there is just a camera to document it's happenings. If one is against prostitution, one should also be against pornography. I completely believe sex workers should have a legitimate and legal way to provide for themselves doing the work that they choose (sex, that is). As far as "if it is on par with other labor", yes it is. Sex can produce feelings of euphoria, heighten one's self-esteem, and relieve stress. Working out can do this as well as seeing a counselor. So personal trainers and therapists should be questioned on the value of their labor if sex workers are too.

[Blake's Baby]

All work is prostitution. It's just that sex work is in some ways more honest.

Do some some sex workers enjoy what they do? Probably. Do some workers in other jobs enjoy what they do? Probably. But how many would still chose to do it if they had a reasonable choice in the matter, if the 'work' they did wasn't tied to their material standard of living?

It's a non-issue because in a post-revolutionary society anyone who wants to have sex will be able to, without constraints of bourgeois law. And there will be no material gain or transaction involved in sex. In that circumstance, what happens to prostitution?

[Tenka]

All work is prostitution. It's just that sex work is in some ways more honest.

Do some some sex workers enjoy what they do? Probably. Do some workers in other jobs enjoy what they do? Probably. But how many would still chose to do it if they had a reasonable choice in the matter, if the 'work' they did wasn't tied to their material standard of living?

It's a non-issue because in a post-revolutionary society anyone who wants to have sex will be able to, without constraints of bourgeois law. And there will be no material gain or transaction involved in sex. In that circumstance, what happens to prostitution?

Good question!
And though prostitution and porn-acting are both considered sex work, there is no such thing as amateur prostitution. Porn, unlike prostitution, will still exist in post-capitalist society (and no, the sex trade existing in pre-capitalist society does not in any way suggest it can survive the fundamental socio-economic changes that GLOBAL COMMUNISM should imply).