The ideal system

[Juche]

Hello comrades. I'm new at posting things so I hope this is in the right section.

Anyways I'm wondering what we consider the ideal system.
What would we consider to be the utopia?

I have a few of my own ideas that some might consider radical, like dress conformity similar to what the DPRK has. Also the abolishment of marriage, religion, gender rolls, money, and any other things we can view as capitalistic, imperialistic, or anything else that's considered part of the worthless petty bourgeois institution.

I think names should be eliminated, maybe replaced with numbers, or some other identifying system but that might be pushing it. My ideal system is one where everyone is as identical and equally the same as physically possible. That way no one will ever have less or more than anyone else. Everything will be fair and equal. I'm not sure how reasonable it is. But it just seems like the dream utopia I would imagine in a truly perfect society. Of course when i'm imagining this I'm imaging a society years into the future with advanced technology and the like. So idk if it would be a good system for this day and age.

So what does everyone else think?

[Slavoj Zizek's Balls]

Would you mind asking a more specific question relating to what you might find in this "utopia"?

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I have a few of my own ideas that some might consider radical, like dress conformity similar to what the DPRK has.

Why do you feel the need to strip people of what makes them, them? If the materials are there why shouldn't a person dress the way they want?

Also the abolishment of marriage, religion, gender rolls, money, and any other things we can view as capitalistic, imperialistic, or anything else that's considered part of the worthless petty bourgeois institution.

How will you go about in all these abolishments? Sign a piece of paper? One cannot simply through the use of force eliminate these things.They must be gradually destryoed through society's progression. Progression, mind you, that can only come about through education and organizing.

I think names should be eliminated, maybe replaced with numbers, or some other identifying system but that might be pushing it.

It would be pushing it, I think. If people want to name their kinds with numbers, that's fine. But forcing numbers on everyone is absurd.

My ideal system is one where everyone is as identical and equally the same as physically possible.

Eugenics, essentially?

Also, do you support the theory of Juche?

[Positivist]

Well, first of all, your a troll.

Second of all, discard any pre-existing notions that all we leftists are, is a bunch of equality hunting militarists who want to eliminate any semblance of inequality.
#1, Equal=\=identical. That's not the definition and has nothing to do with it, read a dictionary.
#2 Leftists advocate the democratic administration of the productive forces by the workers for the workers (workers meaning everyone who does not enter the economy with sufficient resources to pursue self-employment or small business ownership.)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Hello comrades. I'm new at posting things so I hope this is in the right section.

Anyways I'm wondering what we consider the ideal system.
What would we consider to be the utopia?

Utopia means literally "no place", the implication being that it is unachievable. There is no single ideal system since people have different ideas as to what is ideal. I think we would be better to seek a "eutopia" or "good place" wherein its members are free to pursue their ideals free from the constraints of capitalism and class society.

I have a few of my own ideas that some might consider radical, like dress conformity similar to what the DPRK has.

Why? Conformity of dress will contribute towards conditions of cultural stagnation, which an anathema to a dynamic communist society which values freedom.

Also the abolishment of marriage, religion, gender rolls, money, and any other things we can view as capitalistic, imperialistic, or anything else that's considered part of the worthless petty bourgeois institution.

I don't see why marriage needs to be abolished. If people want their partnership to be officially recognised by society and their community is willing to give recognition to those wedded, I don't see the problem as long as all consenting adults are allowed to get married.

I think names should be eliminated, maybe replaced with numbers, or some other identifying system but that might be pushing it.

Why not let people choose their own names?

My ideal system is one where everyone is as identical and equally the same as physically possible. That way no one will ever have less or more than anyone else. Everything will be fair and equal.

Also sterile, boring, and quite possibly a fast-track to human extinction. If everyone thinks exactly the same how will we possibly be equipped to deal with a changing universe?

I'm not sure how reasonable it is. But it just seems like the dream utopia I would imagine in a truly perfect society.

Not everyone wants the same things that you do. We all have the same basic needs, but beyond that we also have a tendency to define ourselves as individuals, which we've been doing (as far as we can tell) for as long as we have been human, so one can hardly blame capitalism for individual tendencies.

Of course when i'm imagining this I'm imaging a society years into the future with advanced technology and the like. So idk if it would be a good system for this day and age.

How would such a society that you propose ever advance technologically when everyone thinks the same and therefore cannot look at problems differently?

So what does everyone else think?

See above. I suspect your response will determine whether you are a troll or not.

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

Sounds more like dystopia to me... or trolling...

[Ostrinski]

All I know is that I want nothing to do with you your politics, holy shit.

A utopia is a non-existing society conceived of the ideological process in isolation from the conditions of the actual workings of society and all of its flaws and contradictions. The socialist system that we strive for is not a utopia, for it is something that we feel very much addresses the contradictory existence of the capitalist mode of production.

[Juche]

Why do you feel the need to strip people of what makes them, them? If the materials are there why shouldn't a person dress the way they want?

How will you go about in all these abolishments? Sign a piece of paper? One cannot simply through the use of force eliminate these things.They must be gradually destryoed through society's progression. Progression, mind you, that can only come about through education and organizing.

It would be pushing it, I think. If people want to name their kinds with numbers, that's fine. But forcing numbers on everyone is absurd.

Eugenics, essentially?

Also, do you support the theory of Juche?

Well my ultimate goal was simply to create a society where everyone is truely equal.
Why dress conformity and everything else is needed is simply like this. Think about it.

When people dress differently, or so things differently from everyone else they're setting themselves outside of the society. This would inevitably create inequality.
It would give people an excuse to discriminate against other people.

I agree with slow route through education and organization. Hopefully people will actually want a society like this in the future. Or maybe it's just me? Idk?

Yeah I thought it might be pushing it. Not to mention, numbers still wouldn't create an equality through names. Some people might think some numbers are better than others I guess. That was just a far out thought.

Not sure how it would be eugenics? I simply think we can form absolute equality. It doesn't mean genocide or anything like that.

I heavily support the notion of self reliance that Juche has to offer.
A nation has to be self reliant to be truly free and independent of foreign control.
Looking at the DPRK I'm not sure if it's possible though. Although they definitely have the spirit and will power to hold out. I definitely admire them.

[Juche]

Utopia means literally "no place", the implication being that it is unachievable. There is no single ideal system since people have different ideas as to what is ideal. I think we would be better to seek a "eutopia" or "good place" wherein its members are free to pursue their ideals free from the constraints of capitalism and class society.

Why? Conformity of dress will contribute towards conditions of cultural stagnation, which an anathema to a dynamic communist society which values freedom.

I don't see why marriage needs to be abolished. If people want their partnership to be officially recognised by society and their community is willing to give recognition to those wedded, I don't see the problem as long as all consenting adults are allowed to get married.

Why not let people choose their own names?

Also sterile, boring, and quite possibly a fast-track to human extinction. If everyone thinks exactly the same how will we possibly be equipped to deal with a changing universe?

Not everyone wants the same things that you do. We all have the same basic needs, but beyond that we also have a tendency to define ourselves as individuals, which we've been doing (as far as we can tell) for as long as we have been human, so one can hardly blame capitalism for individual tendencies.

How would such a society that you propose ever advance technologically when everyone thinks the same and therefore cannot look at problems differently?

See above. I suspect your response will determine whether you are a troll or not.

Eutopia... Sorry that's what I meant. >_<

I see marriage as a status problem. It creates two people that are something that others may not be. I suppose maybe at LEAST reduce it to something no more than signing a piece of paper that states that the two are bonded or something. I guess separate if from anything religious. I really dislike that part of it.

Well the name thing was just a thought. I guess far out there, not really practicable.

Well not think the same. People would have different jobs and careers. I simply want them be no better than others.
For example. I don't think a doctor or lawyer should be treated as "better" than a construction worker. The construction worker actually some can argue is doing a harder job than the doctors and lawyers. One is just using more brain power while the other is using more muscle power.

Not to mention when you have differences that's when the class system start to be born. People will inevitably think they're better than someone else and etc.

I'm not trolling. I'm just trying a different approach to the ideal system.
I think part of the reason the USSR/CCCP collapsed was because of things that separated people. The people eventually got disgruntled with their system.
I know there were MANY other reasons. I just think that if everyone was treated and viewed equally, then it would work smoother with lesser problems.

I think human nature is part of the problem. Jealousy, greed, envy, hatred, etc are all a part of human nature. I think eliminating it would advance society. These things are part of why we have wars, and conflict. They're very primal and are not conducive to modern society.

Human evolution can not keep up with the advancement in our technology and way our society works. We have to change them if we want to stay afloat with the world.

That's my thoughts... I concede to the fact that I may be terribly wrong. But to me it sounds nice. Maybe not though?

[Ostrinski]

Equality is such an abstract concept in the way that you're using it. Your idealization of "equality" dilutes it of what makes equality in general important to us, and this weird shit that you're into isn't really feasible.

[Juche]

Equality is such an abstract concept in the way that you're using it. Your idealization of "equality" dilutes it of what makes equality in general important to us, and this weird shit that you're into isn't really feasible.

Well that's just what I thought could be perfection. I guess it's just a pipe dream that only exists in my head. I just imagined maybe it was possible through removing human nature and things that set us apart from everyone.

That's why I came here and asked everyone what they thought the perfect society would be. Or at least as close to perfect as you can get. Obviously it's about what everyone wants, not me or any individual.

Apologies if it sounded crazy.

[Le Socialiste]

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Ostrinski]

Obvious troll is obvious.

He's hungry.

[Juche]

Would you mind asking a more specific question relating to what you might find in this "utopia"?

Well ideally it would be a society where everyone has the same privileges, financial security, and everything else as everyone else.

Basically an abolishment of all discrimination, inequalities, etc. Something where no one person is above or more important than anyone else. Including people in the government. Hopefully there wouldn't be a need for government at the end of the process.

If everyone had the same equalities. People would be able to get along with everyone as good as anyone else. No one would envy others I don't think people would find the need to steal, commit crimes, hate others, etc. They would have no reason to do anything wrong as everyone else has the same things they have. Maybe some in the beginning would still want more than they need but I think that's just because they haven't been taught that the craving they have is due to primal outdated human behaviors.

I'm guessing this is either not possible at this time or just flat out impossible all together. Idk.

[Juche]

He's hungry.

So if my views don't represent the left. Then what political side and political system does it represent? I didn't think it was was on the right or anything on that side.

[Positivist]

I have to say, I am surprised the OP has responded. Do you really believe this stuff because to honest your posts kind of strike me as caricatures of leftist views?

[Juche]

I have to say, I am surprised the OP has responded. Do you really believe this stuff because to honest your posts kind of strike me as caricatures of leftist views?

Well initially I did, I'm definitely reconsidering it as I think most of the responses seem pretty negative. I'm totally open to the fact that my views are not achievable or practical. So that's why I was asking what everyone thought. I was looking for constructive criticism.

[Catma]

The argument being made by this troll is that communism isn't possible because these interpersonal differences would give rise to different classes.

This is due to a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes a class.

Having different clothes, names, hairstyles, or lifestyles doesn't give you power to command others. It might get you social status, but that's not relevant to anything.

The only important distinction that gives rise to the bourgeoisie is the private ownership/control of the means of production.

[Juche]

The argument being made by this troll is that communism isn't possible because these interpersonal differences would give rise to different classes.

This is due to a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes a class.

Having different clothes, names, hairstyles, or lifestyles doesn't give you power to command others. It might get you social status, but that's not relevant to anything.

The only important distinction that gives rise to the bourgeoisie is the private ownership/control of the means of production.

Sorry you think I'm a troll but seriously think about how class starts.
It starts out as small personal differences. It continues and expands.

Social status....
Do you seriously think that someone with a lower social status will have the same opportunities as someone with a high social status?
You can probably see what I'm talking about in every day life.
For example.
Being hired for a job. Some company will probably favor someone of a higher social status over someone of a lower social status. Someone who comes in dressed nice, has a nice car etc vs someone who might not have or be able to afford all of those things.
They gain power through it.
So I thought it's very relevant.

I experienced the effects of social inequality because of social status in school. The popular kids were treated better than less popular. This created a disadvantage for less popular people. Such as myself.

So someone who starts off in any ways better than someone else will have more of an advantage of success than someone else. Eliminating all disadvantages... in my mind... seemed to be the perfect solution to that problem.

Why names? Because people can get teased, harassed, etc for their name. For example. What are most Americans going to think of someone named Mohammad? vs someone named John? Something as simple as a name can effect someones life. If we were assigned numbers, discrimination like that could not happen.
Yes I know, I guess my ideas are crap. But it sounded like a solution to me. I'm sorry for that.

I admit maybe my logic is flawed. But after thinking a lot about it. It seemed to me that diversion of society had to start somewhere. The small things lead up to the big things.

Like changes in government. Governments don't just drastically change overnight. It's due to the accumulation of small minor things that build up. ... Like a snowball effect I think.

There are other examples if you want me to continue explaining.

And AGAIN I apologize if it sounds like I'm a troll or crazy or whatever.
This is why I asked everyone what they thought an ideal society should be.
If I thought I was right I probably wouldn't have even needed to mention it because I would assume I was correct in my thinking.

I just thought I would share what I thought to be problems and solutions.

[Positivist]

Ok, if these really are your beliefs than I apologize for referencing you as a troll.