Marxist perspective on racism in america.

[ponymaruni3]

What is the materialist/marxist perspective on racism in America?

1. Is racism in america owned to the fact that whites historically speaking have owned the means of production, and when you own the means of production you are paid more. Since whites have owned the means of production they are paid more while minorites are stuck playing by the white mans rules. The fact that whites have owned all the means of production means that there will be less inter-relationships with other minorities since they are held to lower paid jobs thus causing racism?. Is this a proper marxist perspective?

2. Or is racism just a tool used by capitalism to increase capitalist wages by paying less to minorities, which i doubt because if that were true then companies would only be hiring blacks.

Btw im new to marxism although ive been a communist for a much longer time.

[Geiseric]

White workers have always been paid more, been given jobs, and better jobs at that because white ownrs always want to divide the working class into imaginary groups to prevent things like unionizing and working class solidarity in general. The idea though is for having people competing for a chanceto sell their labor. Its easier to convince the white population to accept lower wages if the owners are pitting them against minorities.

[Marxaveli]

I agree with the above post. A counter-argument that some reactionaries will try to use is that racism is older than Capitalism, therefore it isn't the latters fault that there is racism. But this is easily dispelled by the fact that racism or any other socially constructed division is a natural by-product of any class antagonist system - Capitalism included. So while Capitalism may not have caused racism, it certainly helps to perpetuate it, and had Capitalism been the first class antagonist system in history, racism would still have came to be.

[Geiseric]

No racism didn't exist before capitalism. It all started during the colonialization of africa. Racism is to convince white people to go along with low wages, ALMOST as low as black workers.

[Positivist]

I attach it to that the antagonistic relations of exchange result in the development of violently individualist patterns of thought where "others" are viewed as enemies. This though only explains the breakdown of social interaction in society. It is only when these established patterns of thought are extended to entire groups (usually based on appearance) that racism emerges. I've developed this as an alternative to the rather conspiratorial notion that the capitalists are consciously dividing the working class in order to avoid revolt.

As for economic discrimination (where members of certain groups, races are paid lesser wages and/or work in lesser conditions) I attribute it to that businessmen can get away with it due to the "popularity" of racism and that capitalists themselves hold these antagonistic patterns of thought.

Furthermore, since racism tends to rise during crises, it is probable that when confronted by a newly onset difficult situation that many people will long for a previous mode of living where things weren't as bad. Since popular conception of a mode of living is mostly based on superficial things, people will see the deportation, oppression or even extermination of a recently arrived racial group as imperative to the restoration of better living conditions. It is also possible that groups whom racist sentiments have been fostered towards by the other described mechanism become the target of scapegoating.

[blake 3:17]

One of the best accounts of racism in the US is Dave Roediger's Wages of Whiteness. He describes White identity as a kind of false wage, which benefited the financial interests of capital and acted as a psychological compensation for White workers, who could dissociate themselves from Black slaves. The term "boss" (which means master in Dutch) was adopted so that "free" White workers could differentiate themselves from unfree Black workers.

David McNally's book Another World is Possible has a very insightful chapter on the historical developments of racism and capitalism. It is very dense, but probably the best English language Marxist overview of the subject.

[Le Socialiste]

Racism in America dates way back, but it helps to understand its origins. Originally, as the need for a larger labor market in N. America grew, white indentured servants worked alongside black slaves. While indentured servants labored for a fixed number of years before moving on, blacks were typically denied this opportunity; however, landowners, slaveowners, and the ascendant interests of the emerging colonial elite feared the potentiality of whites and blacks banding together against the harsh, miserable conditions confronting them. This fear wasn't necessarily unfounded either: in 1676 former indentured servants, including poor whites and blacks, fomented and engaged in a rebellion against Virginian governor William Berkeley (who had to return to Britain) and torched Jamestown, then the capital of the colony. Now, it should be noted that one of the primary causes for the revolt was Berkeley's reluctance to retaliate against a series of attacks made by Native Americans against the colony, which resulted in groups of whites and blacks attacking and displacing the surrounding Native population.

It was enough to strike fear into the minds of the ruling colonial class though, who swiftly concluded that a united underclass of poor whites and blacks would threaten their livelihoods and standing. As prices for English servants rose and that of Africans became less expensive, indentured servanthood declined, soon to be replaced by the institutionalization of racial slavery. In order to guard against future acts of solidarity between whites and blacks, the land and slave owning class sought to "elevate" the status of poor whites by introducing notions of racial superiority and inferiority - whites occupying the former, blacks the latter. Yet both whites and blacks suffered for it (the latter more so than the former), as unity between the two weakened and frayed, permitting the upper-classes enough maneuverability to manipulate and exploit both. While efforts to bridge the "divide" were attempted (populist Thomas E. Watson urged poor whites and poor blacks to unite around their collective economic self-interests before becoming a white supremacist himself by the turn of the 20th-century), these either collapsed under the weight of existing attitudes and prejudices or were co-opted and later disbanded by the Democratic and Republican parties, who couldn't tolerate a united front between blacks and whites.

Racism serves a very specific purpose, which is the division of the laboring class along racial lines and prejudices, preempting any present or future movement that may see blacks, whites, latinos/as, asians, and others come together to utilize their collective weight and strength to pressure ruling-class circles into acquiescing on certain demands or to overthrow the reigning class itself. Capitalism fosters and perpetuates these divisions, that extend even further along gender, sex/sexuality, and religious lines, creating situations where workers might be isolated and weakened by refusing to coordinate or work with others depending on their race, nationality, sex/sexuality, or religion. It serves a useful purpose, and the bourgeoisie exploit it to the fullest extent possible whenever opportunities present themselves. Racism then is a development fostered as a means of keeping the working-class isolated, separated, and lacking in proper modes of organization capable of upsetting - and even overthrowing - the existing social and material factors holding it back.

[CryingWolf]

I think to answer the question, why does capitalism perpetuate racism, we need to break it down a bit.

The first important question is, why do workers maintain racist attitudes and beliefs? Most of the discrimination racial minorities face comes from fellow workers. I don't think that's a particularly controversial statement. Reactionaries especially.

I think racism is something like an "exclusive club" phenomenon. Racism allows people to arbitrarily categorize each other into an "in-group" and an "out-group". Now, in any bargaining situation with capitalists, and then eventually throughout society in general, the "out-group" is the group that we can safely throw under the bus if we have to. Someone needs to be fired? Black people go first. Note that this raises the status of the "in-group" in these kinds of situations and gives them an advantage. It's a useful privilege that they won't want to lose. I also said that the categorization is arbitrary, and this is important because skin-color has nothing to do with skill or other kinds of desirable qualities that an employer may look for. Thus, relatively unskilled whites are in a better position to compete for jobs than somewhat higher skilled blacks.

The second part of the puzzle is, why do capitalists maintain racist attitudes and beliefs? Well this one is quite obvious. To divide up the working class. This makes it harder for workers to organize strikes since the black workers won't want to risk being fired if they think the white workers are going to betray them (and they probably will).

This theory explains why racial minorities are in the paradoxical position of at once being paid less while also being less likely to be hired. I think it also explains why racism is more prevalent in places where workers have to compete for lower level jobs such as manufacturing.

It's a very interesting subject, and I think it goes a lot deeper than this. But I'm too lazy to keep writing about it here.

[Marxaveli]

Racism in America dates way back, but it helps to understand its origins. Originally, as the need for a larger labor market in N. America grew, white indentured servants worked alongside black slaves. While indentured servants labored for a fixed number of years before moving on, blacks were typically denied this opportunity; however, landowners, slaveowners, and the ascendant interests of the emerging colonial elite feared the potentiality of whites and blacks banding together against the harsh, miserable conditions confronting them. This fear wasn't necessarily unfounded either: in 1676 former indentured servants, including poor whites and blacks, fomented and engaged in a rebellion against Virginian governor William Berkeley (who had to return to Britain) and torched Jamestown, then the capital of the colony. Now, it should be noted that one of the primary causes for the revolt was Berkeley's reluctance to retaliate against a series of attacks made by Native Americans against the colony, which resulted in groups of whites and blacks attacking and displacing the surrounding Native population.

It was enough to strike fear into the minds of the ruling colonial class though, who swiftly concluded that a united underclass of poor whites and blacks would threaten their livelihoods and standing. As prices for English servants rose and that of Africans became less expensive, indentured servanthood declined, soon to be replaced by the institutionalization of racial slavery. In order to guard against future acts of solidarity between whites and blacks, the land and slave owning class sought to "elevate" the status of poor whites by introducing notions of racial superiority and inferiority - whites occupying the former, blacks the latter. Yet both whites and blacks suffered for it (the latter more so than the former), as unity between the two weakened and frayed, permitting the upper-classes enough maneuverability to manipulate and exploit both. While efforts to bridge the "divide" were attempted (populist Thomas E. Watson urged poor whites and poor blacks to unite around their collective economic self-interests before becoming a white supremacist himself by the turn of the 20th-century), these either collapsed under the weight of existing attitudes and prejudices or were co-opted and later disbanded by the Democratic and Republican parties, who couldn't tolerate a united front between blacks and whites.

Racism serves a very specific purpose, which is the division of the laboring class along racial lines and prejudices, preempting any present or future movement that may see blacks, whites, latinos/as, asians, and others come together to utilize their collective weight and strength to pressure ruling-class circles into acquiescing on certain demands or to overthrow the reigning class itself. Capitalism fosters and perpetuates these divisions, that extend even further along gender, sex/sexuality, and religious lines, creating situations where workers might be isolated and weakened by refusing to coordinate or work with others depending on their race, nationality, sex/sexuality, or religion. It serves a useful purpose, and the bourgeoisie exploit it to the fullest extent possible whenever opportunities present themselves. Racism then is a development fostered as a means of keeping the working-class isolated, separated, and lacking in proper modes of organization capable of upsetting - and even overthrowing - the existing social and material factors holding it back.

A perfect Marxian analysis of Bacon's Rebellion Great post comrade. And of course, the ruling white class used policies such as land ownership qualifications and lower taxes (geez, this sounds really familiar doesn't it? lol) with small elements of fascism (harsher policies regarding Native Americans) to intensify this ethnocentric division between whites and blacks.

[Keath]

Is America as racist as it was in the past? Clearly people tend not to be openly racist these days. I do notice institutionalized racism in America but it does seem that over time America has gradually started to become more classist as compared to racist although America still clearly is a very racist society.

[Le Socialiste]

Is America as racist as it was in the past? Clearly people tend not to be openly racist these days. I do notice institutionalized racism in America but it does seem that over time America has gradually started to become more classist as compared to racist although America still clearly is a very racist society.

Today you have black men, women, or children gunned down and murdered by law enforcement every 36 hours; in the first six months of 2012 alone, police, security, and so-called "vigilantes" have killed 110 black people (according to Malcolm X Grassroots Movement). The vast majority of these deaths have been the result of racial profiling, stop and frisk policies, as well as a general atmosphere and culture that labels blacks, latinos/as, and other minorities as a problem. You can't have class society without racism.

[cynicles]

No racism didn't exist before capitalism. It all started during the colonialization of africa. Racism is to convince white people to go along with low wages, ALMOST as low as black workers.

You're joking right?

[#FF0000]

You're joking right?

He's correct, actually. Our concept of race is entirely modern and didn't exist before capitalism.

[cynicles]

He's correct, actually. Our concept of race is entirely modern and didn't exist before capitalism.

Racism may have taken a different form and conception prior to capitalism but that doesn't mean it didn't exist at earlier points.

[Ostrinski]

Racism may have taken a different form and conception prior to capitalism but that doesn't mean it didn't exist at earlier points.

Well are you gonna provide some examples or demonstrations or what

[Ocean Seal]

Well are you gonna provide some examples or demonstrations or what

I presume that you post this because capitalism is the progenitor of racism.
You are correct, as usual. The slave states (2 MoP) were based directly upon the exploitation of one set of tribes over another because of conquest, not through well defined ideas of race. Power, and not the ethics of superiority. The third MoP was also based on regional and national dickwaving, but exploitation was pretty uniform across race and of course there did not exist the capital for colonialism/ imperialism which provided an economic basis for racism.
Hope this helps the OP.

[Peoples' War]

If you're looking for any works on the issues of racism in America, CLR James has good work regarding Afro-Americans.

[cynicles]

Well are you gonna provide some examples or demonstrations or what

Which ones? The Ancient Egyptian conceptions of race that subdivides people into 4 categories of "Nubians", "Asiatics", "Libyans", and "Egyptians or the one common in Ancient Greece put forward by Hippocrates that climate played a mjour role, like how people from more temperate climates were "sluggish and lazy" and people from mountainous regions we're more "warlike and barbaric"?

Oh and thanks for being a dick.

[Marxaveli]

He's correct, actually. Our concept of race is entirely modern and didn't exist before capitalism.

Actually, no he isn't. Class antagonist systems precede racism, and demonstrably so. Le Socialiste's example of Bacon's Rebellion is a perfect example of pre-Capitalist racism. Just because "our" concept of racism is modern doesn't mean that racism itself didn't exist or occur in older societies, and to think otherwise is plain ridiculous.

[#FF0000]

Actually, no he isn't. Class antagonist systems precede racism, and demonstrably so. Le Socialiste's example of Bacon's Rebellion is a perfect example of pre-Capitalist racism. Just because "our" concept of racism is modern doesn't mean that racism itself didn't exist or occur in older societies, and to think otherwise is plain ridiculous.

Nope. Xenophobia and othering has always existed, but the concept of dividing up races according to skin tones and phenotype is exclusively modern. The very concept of race is modern. Racism, then, is a modern phenomenon as well.

"Othering" and bigotry has existed in other forms, but "racism" is relatively new.