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The Kids Are All Libertarian
Apparently the next generation is America is going to be worst then the last.
http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/the-k...l-libertarians
Not necessarily, may be--and I suspect this is the case--young right-wingers are basically switching from conservatism to right-wing libertarianism.
pew pew pew
Well, I'd rather see them develop a little bit of class consciousness and join us Lefties.
I was vaguely libertarian before I woke up and joined the left-wing fun train. At least identifying as a libertarian breaks them out of the liberal-conservative binary and makes them think about things differently. If we plug away at them enough and try to persuade them, I'm sure we can recruit a couple.
When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die - Jean-Paul Sartre
A slaveholder who, through cunning and violence shackles his slaves in chains - and a slave who, through cunning and violence, breaks the chains - let not the contemptible eunuchs tell us that they are equals before a court of morality! - Leon Trotsky
Sartre, Existentialism is a Humanism
Bordiga, Party and Class
Pannekoek, Workers Councils
Luxemburg, Reform or Revolution?
Kollontai, Theses on Communist Morality in the Sphere of Marital Relations
I don't know, American youth don't have much of the radical conciousness fresh in their brains the way other youth around the world do. The closest thing they had was the 60s, which basically produced a generation of reaganites, these guys are positioning themselves to be worse. Maybe it'll be a good lesson learned.
Nope, bullshit, most kids don't can't grasp any political meaning at all. Its more like a desire for an alternative to liberalism and conservatism, combined with a desire for legal weed. And if they want to try out libertarian capitalism, let them, the proletarian revolution will be a few months later.
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Judging from their pictures, I'd assume this is the priamry concern they have.
i'm not surprised... in my high school and college classes it wasn't uncommon to hear libertarian POVs, even in classes that you think would be full of liberals/leftists (higher level racial theory classes etc.)
i wonder if for some young people libertarianism is a manifestation of unhappiness with both parties + a desire to appear/feel radical but without the "naive kid"/"moonbat" stigma that comes with being a leftist.
yup, this... i'd add not having to work long hours on minimum wage, or experiencing unemployment, etc.
Until now, the left has only managed capital in various ways; the point, however, is to destroy it.
most young'uns are right-libertarians, because as a youth, one strives for freedom and independence and wealth. Combine that with a media that promote the government as a usurper of freedoms and taxation as theft. We get libertarians. Right-wing libertarianism is insanely simple and anybody can understand it, so it gives those who hold its views the feeling of being more 'enlightened,' also it is alternative so it gives a feeling of being above the liberal-conservative fray. Also socially taught selfish-ness and being told you are special(all the way from kindergarten to middle school does give someone the feeling of being superior) makes people more self-centered and steer to ideologies that promote the individual and its liberty as the highest vale.
I wouldn't place too much hope on right-wing libertarians becoming class conscious.
Nothing about its ideology steers it adherents to Marxism.
It says all humans are equal, and everyone has the same chance, material conditions can be overridden by ideas. so:
not much acknowledgement of class.
idealist.
blind to the plight of those born into bad material conditions.
selfish, as long as someone can become rich, the fact that others have to work to maintain a rich man doesn't matter.
believe the only coercion is state coercion.
reinforces classes, by teaching that the rights over the means of production are a function of one's ability to 'work hard, be smart, not be stupid and do drugs, work ethic' instead of the Marxist truth which is material conditions.
Blames the poor 'the poor choose to be poor, anybody can be rich if they try hard enough'
yeah i knew someone (a young person) who actively bragged and acted really haughtily about not going on food stamps even though it meant semi-starving themselves when they lost their job...
i don't think "selfishness" is a good explanation though, unless there is some distinction between selfishness and self-interest that i'm missing. if only workers were a little more selfish...
Until now, the left has only managed capital in various ways; the point, however, is to destroy it.
Question, What exactly is the popular libertarian stance these days? Is it really weed, privatize the ocean, no taxes, and "small" goverment?
At least libertarian activists don't like the police and actively troll them. I can definitely respect that.
Plus, y'know, the news that the government can now legally kill you without a trial, can spy on literally every piece of your correspondence and your every movement pretty much with total impunity, can continue to occupy/destroy foreign nations even with a noble peace prize winner like Obama at the helm...I'm sure these things also make people take libertarian stances.
"Win, lose or draw...long as you squabble and you get down, that's gangsta."
Y'know what? Libertarian economics are dumb, I work in an industry which, if libertarian principles were applied, would be a barren wasteland. There is absolutely no doubt about that in my mind, the privatization of every single thing would be a nightmarish world IMO.
BUT, on the other hand, I actually completely see what's so appealing about libertarianism. It's telling figures in power to go fuck themselves. Even though American libertarianism is terribly blind to private power, so it's mostly just about telling government bureaucrats to go fuck themselves. But I agree, I hate the worthless sacks of shit who occupy our police departments, and congress, and every branch of every legislature and the White House. Those assholes can sit and spin.
"Win, lose or draw...long as you squabble and you get down, that's gangsta."
That sounds like a crazy neo nazi conspericy theroy!
Part of the problem I think comes from the way libertarianism panders to an "informed" audience. By informed, I simply mean, people who don't just tow a straight Dems versus Repubs line. They often couch their rhetoric in popular secular language, such as The Reason Institute, and Ayn Rand's Objectivism, to name just to examples. The young follow what traditionally have been the signposts for liberals and radical lefties: anti-authoritarianism, anti-war, freedom and liberties associated with consumption (legalize it!), more relaxed attitudes on social issues, and even secularism. What's happening is a slight of hand. Once they come to realize the premises, they are then pulled the old switcharoo, and are thus herded like cattle into the group/double think ideology of US libertarianism.
Then you have people like Ron Paul who do a lot of the "public intellectual" work of US libertarians. Never mind that he is in fact a Republican, and that he is actually quite against the fray in a few issues, most notably his opposition to abortion. Paul's popularity has given libertarianism more legitimacy, and has drawn many into the common sense logic of this philosophy.
Ultimately, though, it makes little sense to me why any working class person, for example the guy working at a restaurant, would think it is in his/her interest to cut back on economic regulations and labor laws. Do they think the weekend and 40 hour week are laws of nature? Fundamentally, I think they think that people will not buy or work at businesses that have unjust labor practices. Unfortunately, that's not the way it works. I forget the name, but there are in most industries, organizations which represent the whole industry, in spite of the competition within the industry. They often set prices and agree on other things to make it fair for everyone in the industry. Who is to prevent these organizations for setting the work week, wages and pay, benefits etc amongst themselves, leaving no possible alternative for consumers and workers?
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that worker sees himself as an individual, an individual who can have great life, become successful if it weren't for the dern:
government
big banks
taxes
politicians
it creates an idea of the self as an individual who owes nothing to anybody and needs no help, one of their big phrases is 'i never got any handouts'
they believe they have the potential to be rich and 'unfair' society is holding them back.
basically the restaurant worker thinks he's a a future thousandaire waiting to happen, and that 'liberty, small government, and low taxes' will help that happen, because the culture says freedom and liberty are the greatest things ever and they are our american values the core of the american system and any good american supports this.
of course a class conscious worker would never believe such ideas.
Or it could be the result of the National Defense Authorization Act, the U.S.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act, the Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act (the "anti-Occupy Act"), the increased usage of drones, the UN small arms treaty, not doing much about Gitmo, etc ....
I don't think that Obama has the best track record when it comes to human rights.
Last edited by JPSartre12; 14th July 2012 at 01:03.
When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die - Jean-Paul Sartre
A slaveholder who, through cunning and violence shackles his slaves in chains - and a slave who, through cunning and violence, breaks the chains - let not the contemptible eunuchs tell us that they are equals before a court of morality! - Leon Trotsky
Sartre, Existentialism is a Humanism
Bordiga, Party and Class
Pannekoek, Workers Councils
Luxemburg, Reform or Revolution?
Kollontai, Theses on Communist Morality in the Sphere of Marital Relations
that stuff is not even hidden, though.
I was being sarcastic about the crazy neo nazi stuff.
