Why wouldn't this be terrorism? I don't see why Islamist terrorism would either be irresponsible squadism or heroic, it's neither.
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Three Men planned "terrorist" attack on EDL
What do comrades make of this:
Click the link for the full story
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18777992
Irresponsible squadism or an heroic action foiled by the old bill?
"Events have their own logic, even when human beings do not." - Rosa Luxemburg
"There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin
Why wouldn't this be terrorism? I don't see why Islamist terrorism would either be irresponsible squadism or heroic, it's neither.
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Neither, its stupid behavior and my main interest would be not whether but how much mi5 was involved but you can shove your "squadism" term and all with it intended implications so deep up your arse maybe finally something useful on the subject comes out..
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I don't see where you're getting the impression it's islamist terrorists... Those on trial for it may be Muslim but that doesn't say anything about why they wanted to attack the EDL. Of course i'm not claiming they're decent people or anything, i don't know them, just that there's tons of reasons as to why a muslim may wish to attack the EDL and not all can be accurately labelled "islamist terrorism". Maybe that is the case with these people, maybe not.
I do, however, think it was stupid of them. The best method to combatting the EDL is through community organising not individual attacks.
Why is this Islamist terrorism? The article doesn't say they're from an Islamist organisation. Why does the religion of the people conducting the action define this for you?
. You're just jealous because they are better armed than you. But, seriously, I wasn't intending to imply this was connected to actual anti-fash groups, or to suggest a parallel between the two, so, yeah, the choice of the word "squadism" was poor. But to your other input: do you really think mi5 set it up? Personally, I think things are getting so polarised in the UK that they don't need to bother. It's scary to think how further polarised things would get if this attack had gone ahead.
"Events have their own logic, even when human beings do not." - Rosa Luxemburg
"There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin
Three bearded muslim men, odds are they are Islamists. But you're right that there is a chance they are not.
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i think you can make an educated guess that these guys are probably islamists. maybe they were just ordinary muslims, upset at victimisation from the edl. maybe. but i'm sure there are millions of muslims who feel the same and don't make nail bombs, get guns, etc. in response.
of course, that doesn't necessarily mean it was "islamist terrorism", and i'm sure you can make a technical argument about it not be so. but yes, they are probably islamists. i'll eat my hat if they arent.
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Funny, I actually worked at a place recently where I got to know a great many "bearded Muslim men" and none of them struck me as the terrorist sort.
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If that remark was racist/Islamophobic then I should be restricted, shouldn't I?
But how is it Islamophobic, that when bearded muslim men are preparing a terrorist attack, that in all probability they are Islamist.
Just like when white skinheads target a Jewish convention, it's safe to say that they are nazis.
I wouldn't be saying that skinheads are all nazis, I would be saying that these skinheads are in all probability nazis because they targeted a Jewish convention.
I'm not saying that bearded, muslim men are all terrorists you dimp. I'm saying that terrorists who are bearded muslims are in all probability Islamist. There is absolutely nothing Islamophobic about this.
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It might not be Islamophobic but you're certainly guilty of stereotyping.
But if it was a group of tooled-up white anti-fascist skinheads intercepted on their way to attack the EDL would you call them "terrorists" so easily?
"Events have their own logic, even when human beings do not." - Rosa Luxemburg
"There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin
On one hand, I have zero sympathy for the EDL and their being blown up or hacked to pieces does not in itself present any problem in my eyes.
However, on the other hand I think if they had been successful then the impact of such an event would most likely have been disastrous in the current context. Aside from possibly providing a PR boost to the EDL (via sympathy from the right-wing press who would gleefully leap upon such an opportunity), it would have given another chance for this rotten government to hide behind the headlines while they sell us all down the river. Again.
Killing boneheads is a bad thing if it leads to more boneheads in the future.
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Helot hit it on the button, we certainly aren't positive whether these men were islamists. Either way, it was stupid. More anti-fash organizing, less vigilantism.
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What I don't understand, why is it when anti-fascists (who are generally not bearded Muslims) undertake an action it is called anti-fascism, yet when bearded Muslim men do it, it is characterized as terrorism?
To me that is islamophobic if not just brutal stereotyping as I have heard of anti-fascist actions which include attacks on fascists many times with weapons.
That, to me, is the real issue here.
Or they could just be normal Muslims who are pissed off at the EDL for nationalist/ethnic reasons. There is nothing to suggest that they are fundamentalists. Also beards are cool.
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Perhaps, but I don't think so. It's statistics based on my personal experience. Every single non-Islamist muslim I've ever met, had no beard, and every Islamist muslim I've met did have a beard. Obviously, there are muslims who have a beard for aesthetic reasons, not Islamic, but when you have three muslim men with beards, the odds are they are Islamist.
Then when these men are plotting a terrorist attack, the odds are they are Islamist terrorists. That's simply the odds, not necessarily stereotyping.
Just like that when skinheads attack Jews, the odds are they are nazis, and not anti-fascist, or apolitical skinheads. That's not stereotyping, that's the odds.
Well obviously everyone is a little biased in favour of his or her own ideology. But, yes, if those anti-fasicsts had explosives on them they would be (would-be) terrorists. And if then someone would use quotation marks around "terrorism" as if it's not really terrorism, then I would correct that, yes.
Because usually anti-fascists don't use home-made explosives.
But not explosives.
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Sorry to jump in here, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if mi5 or some other government agency had been watching these guys.
For some reason, I find it suspicious that the police fortuitously discovered weapons and such on a random police stop and further, it turned out to be a "terrorist" plot.
Maybe things are different in the UK, but I have friends who consistently drive above the legal limit after drinking, others who regularly carry generous amounts of drugs, and still others who are undocumented and driving with fake licenses. Yes, some of them sometimes get caught, but this is very rare occurrence.
Thing is, the above things mentioned are pretty regular occurrences. If it wasn't them getting caught, it would be someone else. There are more than just a few people doing these things. On the other hand, take plotting a terrorist action or, if you're hung up with the semantics, whatever you want to call what these guys were up to. Given all the people out on the road, breaking the law, either from just minor speeding violations anywhere up to grand theft auto, to uncover a major conspiracy such as this, on a "routine police stop" to me is statistically, like winning the lottery. It seems very very unlikely.
It would make more sense if they had been profiled (pulling over bearded Muslims just because they looked like bearded Muslims), the car was stolen, or something else, like mi5 had been tracking them, and advised the police to pull them over.
Further, I'm not sure if the laws are all that different in the UK, but in the US, your vehicle cannot be searched unless the police have probable cause to suspect a major crime. Even then, if I recall correctly, they would still need a warrant to search the trunk. So even if you did get pulled over, provided you didn't look or act suspicious, there's still a high likelihood that your vehicle wouldn't be searched. If these guys were just dumb enough to have all that stuff out in the open, well that's one thing, but I seriously doubt it.
So yeah, barring any details suggesting that the car was stolen, or something other than just a routine stop, I would venture to guess that mi5 was involved.
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Yeah, that's like the official definition of a stereotype.
Soldiers also use explosives. Why aren't you calling them soldiers?
"Events have their own logic, even when human beings do not." - Rosa Luxemburg
"There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin
Me neither.
Yeah, Pakistani and Bangladeshi men are 18 times more likely to be stopped and searched by the police in the UK than white dudes. So you never know...
"Events have their own logic, even when human beings do not." - Rosa Luxemburg
"There are decades when nothing happens; and there are weeks when decades happen." - Lenin
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