Is this the war on terror you're talking about?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/a...article5365.htm
Results 1 to 20 of 53
Just typing a "heyo!" out to everybody with small introduction. Since I'm not exactly leftist or liberal, seems like this is the appropriate place to put this.
I'm currnetly enlisted in the United States Marine Corps and am going to be shipping out in afew weeks. I like hearing all sides of an arguement and this seemed like a nice place to hear the opposite side. I hope you're welcoming of other people's opinions and I hope I can provide some metter insight from whats going on in the War on terror.
"We're surrounded...That simplifies our problem."
- Chesty Puller
Is this the war on terror you're talking about?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/a...article5365.htm
Verily poor as we are in democracy, how can we give of it to the world? A democracy conceived in the military servitude of the masses, in their economic enslavement, and nurtured in their tears and blood, is not democracy at all
-Emma Goldman
IWW
Greetings, and by the sound of what you said this is the right place for you. For a moment I was going to ship this off to the lounge... but Welcome!
That's the war on Iraq. I ment the more global war on terror (things more like rooting out terror cells and what not, Bin Laden, what our troops are doing to counter what's going on, etc.).
War WILL bring out the worst in people. There are crazies on both sides, there's no denying that. The way these men probably saw it, if you try to kill them, they will kill you back. It's something most people wouldn't understand unless you've been shot at. (The report didn't mention whether or not he was a militia man or if he had tried to kill them.) The Iraqi soldiers were trying to kill them. The way they saw it, they were killing someone who tried to kill them.
In the heat of war, you'll see all sorts of crazy shit, much of it I'm sure you'd disagree with, but you have to understand, war is war. It's something that's never pretty, but when something that people disagree with happens, it always appears to be outstanding of everything else, especially since this si a televised war. Many people have had no idea what goes on at the front lines until now, how crazy shit happening occurs on a normal basis. Understand that that it's on both side that this occurs and not just our men who are doing it. It also should not be taken as the feelings of everyone, or every Marine for that matter.
I'm not trying to compensate for what those few men did, I'm just trying to provide some insight on what their mindset was at that time. One thing that bothers me about that video is the skippin in on part where he says "Hell ya, let's do it again." Makes me wonder whether or not he was still talking about the same thing, or something else (that's the problem I have with all news corperations, you never et to hear entirely what the soldier or Marine has to say, just little clips).
"We're surrounded...That simplifies our problem."
- Chesty Puller
That's the war in Iraq. Not actually the war on terror then? Could you please explain then, what we are at war with Iraq for?
Some things we know....
No Iraqi's were part of 9/11
There is no tie between Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein
There has been no WMD's found. In fact, as is well documented, we know that most if not all the information was falsified to give pretences to go to war.
As for Afghanistan...
Annihilating a population for the purpose of getting one ex-CIA partner, would be like bombing and killing everyone in Chicago to get Al Capone. It's not logical. The war on terror is complete rhetoric. Ask most people if they feel safer than before and they'll say no.
Regarding the video.
Since when is it acceptable to execute a wounded combatant? If indeed that person was a combatant. Sadly we'll probably never know the answer.
I would suggest that "terror" is in the eyes of the beholder.
Verily poor as we are in democracy, how can we give of it to the world? A democracy conceived in the military servitude of the masses, in their economic enslavement, and nurtured in their tears and blood, is not democracy at all
-Emma Goldman
IWW
Could you please explain that to our president then who has been trying to link Iraq to the "global war on terrorism?"
In Solidarity,
RC
Hey PolarisUSMC thank you for your service to our country. As a New Yorker I can’t express how much I appreciate you putting your life on the line to defend us and stand in opposition to tyranny.
Its nice that you decided to try and seek alternative points of view I’m not sure your going to find exactly what your looking for here. Anti-Americanism is the pillar upon which the Communist ideology rests rather then being an economic theory as its proponents claim. Thus everything America does is wrong and “Imperialistic”. You are unlikely to get any coherent criticism of the Iraq war of with there is plenty to be made.
As an ex-socialist I’ll save you the trouble and break down 90% of what you will see here concerning America’s foreign policy; it falls into three categories. Sadly the majority are long diatribes that amount to “Fuck Bush” and “Bush is Hitler” Second you see a lot of conflicting criticism like blaming the US for not stopping Saddam’s genocide after the first gulf war actions that would have shattered the UN collection; while simultaneously condemning the US for acting “Unilaterally” today. Lastly the abject denial “War on Terror! What war on terror! America is the real terrorist just look at what they did to Cuba!” Most will deny that the removal of Saddam was a positive event and a blow against fascism.
If your looking for more coherent opponents of the war look to the Palo-conservatives, or the Libertarians, I don’t think their solutions are practical (some are naive) but at least they are aware of the threat to civilization. Two sites I recommend are the Anti-State or Cato institute, or try and look for at a main stream Left-leaning board ie Salon.com.
The majority of members on this site are stuck 20 years in the past, not realizing that the collapse of the USSR has utterly discredited communism.
PS what where are you stationed?
free·dom:
Pronunciation: 'frE-dom
1 : the absence of coercion, or constraint in choice or action
Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito
I don't see what kind of socialist you were Crusader, if you actually still think the Soviet Union was a communist absolutist dictatorship.
Oh yeah, and by the way, fuck America and Bush is Hitler.
Believe it or not some progressives did condemn the USSR, notably the Trotskyites and later Scope Jackson wing of the Democratic Party. Many of those individuals become the Neo-Conservatives. I was too young (23) to have been involved in those debates. However my political evolutions went along a similar path being an FDR/LBG democrat favoring an activist government with a large social welfare net to protect the poor and shelter us from the evils of large robber baron corporations. Then largely due to my experiences in college studying economics and engineering I evolved to resemble something approximating today’s Neo-Cons. That is why I post here, because I believe that using reason and logic I can persuade others rather then using ad hominem attacks and profanity witch do not convince anyone.
free·dom:
Pronunciation: 'frE-dom
1 : the absence of coercion, or constraint in choice or action
Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito
Heh, sorry. I myself consider them two different things, I should have mentioned that. To me, it's more the war on terror, which is much more global and wide spread, and the theres the war in Iraq which is more centralized. My fault, I'll be more explicit next time
"We're surrounded...That simplifies our problem."
- Chesty Puller
I'm at home right now. I got lucky and get to stay for the holidays. Only afew weeks left here though
, then off to South Carolina for a while. I'm trying hard as hell though to get stationed in Japan. I've only heard positive things about Iwakuni (Good sized Marines base. If you request overseas, 90% of the time you get sent there), and since Hawaii is vurtually unattainable, I'll settle for second best.
"We're surrounded...That simplifies our problem."
- Chesty Puller
Just curious, why am I under restricted members? Does being in the Marines automatically put me in this? I can't even post in the chit chat forums
"We're surrounded...That simplifies our problem."
- Chesty Puller
The board is for socialists, this one section is for opposing idealogies.
You are restricted to this and only this forum (and tech support if there is a technical problem).
But chit chat and all the rest is for socialists to chit chat with other socialists. If somebody wants to chit chat with people without the constraints of politics, then I would suggest not going to a political board.
It isn't saying that you are a bad person or anything, it is just so people who view one type of idealogy get to chat freely with other people that share the same idealogy.
<span style=\'color:red\'>"You might say that I am a dreamer, but I am not the only one."</span>
Oh, alright. Seems fair enough I suppose.
"We're surrounded...That simplifies our problem."
- Chesty Puller
as far as I am concerned, a war on terror can only be a defensive campaign
america's perspective is screwed on this one
tehy're invading countries, formerly their ALLIES for fuck all, under what seems to be a threat of "terror"
additionally, weapons of mass don't really constitute teror weapons, do they? no, if you have nukes you're considered a "nuclear power", unless you're situated in the middle east and then you are a haven for terrorists
standard 84ish word games
Please reinstate me to non-restricted staus. My mailbox is full and I cannot contact anyone for assistence.
Until my unjustifiable restriction is lifted, I, HAZARD, founder of the GUERRILLA POSTERS and the most widely read poet of this century, can be found at this website.
http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?&...ser=seditionary
THIS IS THE NEW SITE
The problem with the war on terror is that there is no clear definition of what terrorism is.
I'm sure you've heard the saying "one persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter"
The fact is that there was no justification (casus belli) for a war with iraq.
*Edit* welcome to the board
The best defense is a good offense. If it could be more defense, that would make the jobs of many men much much easier. Unfortunately, in order to reduce or even prevent attacks you need to keep the pressure on them. We need to constantly be down their throats showing them we take shit from on one. The capture of Khalid Sheikh Muhammad was a major victory for us. Without leadership, the terrorists only weaken. What would be best for us would be for us would be to capture Bin Laden. I'm not sure why they haven't captured him yet (maybe they have. The world of intelligence and black ops is a dark quite place) but there are probably reasons. My best assumption can be that they're trying their damndest to root out all of the terror cells in this country and abroad. If the fact that he's either captured or killed is revealed to the media in it's early stages, it could trigger the sleeper cells in this country (we're wroking our asses off to find them) to go out and start some sort of attack. Best case scenario for an attack would be a bombing. You don't want to see what some of those chemicals can do to a person. It was enough to make me nervous. About Bin Laden though, I'm not going to rule out dumb luck on his part that we havent found him. I know our guys know the general area where he is though.
The real threat with Saddam as far as I'm concerned is the chemical weapons. People first think that an attack on the US with chem weapons means by use of an Inter-Continental Ballitic Missile. Not true. Saddam did have chemical and biological weapons. Our troops have been finding evidence on this one quite frequently. Once it is confirmed that Saddam is either caputred or killed is when you're going to see officers come out and show you where they are, or if they don't know confirm they were present. Why they just don't tell us now? Beats me. Fear of the bathists coming back or fear of being charged with some sort of war crime I suppose.
As far as the WMD's go, Saddam had the means to produce, there's no question of that. Finding those mobile weapons labs I thought would be some sort of proof enough for people here. The problem with Saddam having these weapons is #1, Under UN regulation, he wasn't supposed to have them (our origional reason for going in), and #2, in time, he would have more than willingly lended some of these weapons to terrorists. If one of hi sons were ever to take power, this would be a guarentee. They made him look like a sweet old man. You have to understand that when I'm talking WMD's, I'm not talking 55 gallon drums. They have RPG rounds that can be fitted to carry chem or bio weapons, or artillery rockets. There's a variety of other things you can put them in too. Terrorists are masters of unconventional warfare, they would try like hell to get some weapons like that into this country. Where there's a will there's a way. Release alittle into the air, before you know it, you'll see people on the ground with their muscles tightening to the point it breaks their own bones and eventaully asphyxiates them. Nerve agents can be fun
Anything can be a weapon of terror. WMD's are the worst case scenario if they got a hold of those. The problem with some countries having nukes is whether or not they're going to use them. We saw what they can do at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We haven't used them since. When countries that support terrorism (or crazy screwball leaders) get ahold of them, that's when it becomes questionable. Would they nuke an enemy just because? Would Iran give a small tac to some terrorists?
North Korea I believe deffinately shouldn't have them, as long as they have Kim Jong Il in power anyway. That guy is batshit crazy. When crazies like him get nukes, that's when you have a problem. Since he claims to have operational weapons, the best thing we can do at this stage is work it out diplomatcaly. If we were to storm in, he would use them no doubt. That's something none of us want to see (I hope). We'll see how NK plays out within the next year or so.
"We're surrounded...That simplifies our problem."
- Chesty Puller
That's just a ridiculous statement. Any objective look at the Soviet Union will show that it was not even close to being a communist nation. Why do you take their claim to being socialist at face value? They also called themselves a democracy, why are you not taking that at face value as wall and shouting how the failure of the USSR has discredited democracy?
__
Economic Left/Right: -10.00
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.67
http://www.politicalcompass.org
Too long have the workers of the world waited for some Moses to lead them out of bondage. He has not come he never will come. I would not lead you out if I could for if you could be led out, you could be led back again. -Eugene V. Debs
polaris
maybe, but the best defense against terrorism is not to piss people off, don’t allow martyrs to be made.
The U$UK coalition storms around guns blasin killing 9 kids in afghan recently, killing innocents in iraq blowing up 14 million pound jets with 2 million pound missiles, is just prooving the cause to the terrorists. It would be better to search every man coming in to america than to search every country for the leader.
pressure on who? Bin Laden isn’t scared there’s no pressure on him, he casually allows video footage out to piss on bushes bonfire. You can’t prevent terrorism you can prevent war, you can reduce damage, you can improve relations with the countries, which house the terrorists to be, but prevention is not an option. How can you prevent what you don’t see coming. I can walk around any ward in any hospital unquestioned unchallenged. I can walk through any shopping center unchallenged. I see no effort being made where I live to prevent terrorism.
it was but how has it benifited the people, who has it justified all the dead service men let alone the dead innocent civillians.
bin laden can not be caught, if you catch him and let the public know bin laden will become a martyr dying for his god he will be qouted saying something like “ go to sit with allah in heaven see you when serve your duty”. If however you kill him on the spot and tell no one then the leader still exists, it may not be bin laden but the revolution of anti west terrorists will continue.
,
military intelligence is a very large oxymoron, military intelligence bombed various places in former yugoslavia which were no longer there, it bombed a house in afghan killed children, it shot down an f 14 it killed more uk soldiers than the iraqi’s military intelligence is what the public fail to trust, DR Kelly is dead because of doctered military intelligence. The list goes on and on.
The reasons black ops is a dark place is because it is illegal it is in violation of every humanitarian law, covert operations go on all the time but wether they benefit the cause is never known as it is forgotten and denied when it goes wrong. And when it goes right they can’t tell us anyway.
How so you decide who is a 'crazy leader' and who has the right to decide this? wouldn't it be better if nobody at all had WMD's (including america).
