Thread: End the cycle of splits

Results 21 to 28 of 28

  1. #21
    Join Date Apr 2007
    Location Eisenach, Gotha, & Erfurt
    Posts 14,082
    Organisation
    Sympathizer re.: Communistisch Platform, WPA, and CPGB (PCC)
    Rep Power 81

    Default

    I think that's why DNZ advocates the creation of alternative culture. I also think you fall into the opposite trap that you are accusing DNZ of and could be seen as equally condescending. To make any so of claim that people aren't interested in things that would be considered academic requires a pretty negative view of the working class as bunch uneducated people who aren't interested in anything outside of feeding themselves and sports.
    The best part of Alternative Culture, comrade, is that it does cover the "feeding themselves and sports" aspect quite sufficiently (food banks and recreational clubs along with cultural societies and other institutions).

    This isn't to say that the pre-war SPD model is the one we should start from, but your attitude seems to reject any amount of learning from the past.
    <ANTI-PROPAGANDIST>But, wait, such strategic learning would have to involve learners, on the one hand, and secular "preachers" or "evangelists," on the other!</ANTI-PROPAGANDIST>
    Last edited by Die Neue Zeit; 28th May 2012 at 05:09.
    "A new centrist project does not have to repeat these mistakes. Nobody in this topic is advocating a carbon copy of the Second International (which again was only partly centrist)." (Tjis, class-struggle anarchist)

    "A centrist strategy is based on patience, and building a movement or party or party-movement through deploying various instruments, which I think should include: workplace organising, housing struggles [...] and social services [...] and a range of other activities such as sports and culture. These are recruitment and retention tools that allow for a platform for political education." (Tim Cornelis, left-communist)
  2. #22
    Join Date Aug 2009
    Location Manchester
    Posts 140
    Rep Power 11

    Default

    If interested there is a short article that responds to some of the issues Mike raised: http://thecommune.co.uk/2012/05/29/w...utionary-left/

    The capitalist crisis has opened up a new period and instigated the intensification of class warfare on every continent. Movements such as Occupy, the uprisings in the Middle East, the student movement in Quebec and the popular protests in the Russian Federation represent an acceleration of the class struggle. After listening to two electricians speak in Manchester about their struggle against BESNA I was struck by how these movements have transcended national boundaries and how the language of Occupy and Los Indignados in Spain have embedded themselves in a layer of working class activists. This is also evident in the affinity many people have with the 99% slogans adopted by Occupy.

    This opening up of a new period places a great deal of responsibility on communist militants to explain what is happening but also to propose a positive solution to the crisis. Proletarian revolution. To take this forward we have to have some critical reflections on the state of the left, how we understand our collective history and to examine whether our relationship to the class is healthy. This article will focus on the latter through the prism of my experiences in the Communist Party of Great Britain (PCC) for the last three years.

    Hal Draper wrote in 1960 that the crisis of the left is because “throughout the history of socialist movements and ideas, the fundamental divide is between Socialism-from-Above and Socialism-from-Below.” (1) This crisis and conflict is even clearer today when you consider the absence of or opportunism by the left in the mass movements. It is a clear indictment on the revolutionary milieu and their isolation from the working class that when mass eruptions have occurred such as Occupy or Los Indignados, communist politics were not just dismissed but not even evident as a serious trend. These movements are a timely opportunity for the left to critically examine methods of struggle and party building. What we also have been shown is that workers, especially younger workers, are adept at building radical actions, opening up dynamic spaces for discussions and seeking a democratic approach that does not allow the movement to be organisationally dominated by cliques and small groups. How successful they have been on the latter is debatable but the searching by hundreds of thousands of young workers for a democratic approach to building resistance has to be welcomed and engaged with.

    For a communist collective to be isolated from the broader movement represents a serious danger. The further Marxists retreat from engaging in the basic common organisations of the class; the unions, the anti-cuts groups and such, the greater the rate of disorientation and confusion takes hold. As we enter into a new period of confrontation by mass movements to capital the traditional left has failed to seriously relate and participate. In Britain the symptoms of isolation are obvious, the left spends most of the time running behind trade union and Labour Party leaders begging for them to deliver a fightback. Instead of building a credible alternative we are left with competing sect building projects. The numerical weakness of the revolutionary left is also a symptom of the left’s sectarian isolation, the membership of the Socialist Workers Party numbers no more than 2000, the Communist Party of Britain’s and the Socialist Party of England and Wales’ membership is probably less than half of that. Then we have several groups, mostly from some sort of Trotskyist tradition, that would each be hard pressed to fill the top-deck of a double decker bus. Yet there must be hundreds of thousands of workers who have at one time been either a member or a supporter of a left wing organisation. Where are they now? This is a pitiful situation considering the disillusionment with the last Labour government, mass protests against the Iraq war and the ruthless attacks on living conditions by the Conservative-led administration.

    The common answer to communist isolation is that the current conditions aren’t favourable and so as long as the group is replicating cadres in a small way it can rise to the top of mass movements when they appear. Another excuse put forward by the CPGB is that whilst conditions might be poor, the left is also in a parlous situation and thus needs transforming. All very well and good, if only its talk matched up to its actions within the movement. Where active participation in the movement should be there are only poor polemics and an aloof voluntarism. Both solutions to communist isolation are backwards, leaving the necessary work of creating a credible communist centre in the worker’s movement to another day and another era. Essentially pursuing strategies of sect self-preservation and a political outlook dominated by defeatism. A couple of examples of this from the CPGB; when commenting on a spate of resignations PCC member John Bridge said that the idea of communist work at the base of the worker’s movement was “nonsense”. (2) Secondly, when myself or others raised the importance of doing serious work with trade unions or anti-cuts work committees as part of strengthening a partyist project it was dismissed as “movementism” and no serious organisational steps would be taken to this end. This is why those active in trade unions or other working class bodies tend to drop out of activity if not resigne from the organisation. What the CPGB have retreated into is a political method that theorises and accepts isolation as necessary. When groups give up the fight like this, it is a clear sign that the they are facing the beginning of the end. The only question is how long will it linger on?

    This kind of theorised isolation linked three key controversies within the CPGB over the last two years, the Labour Party, Communist Students (CS) and the Anticapitalist Initiative (ACI). Nowhere was it more clear how far the leadership clique was from reality when they hastily decided that Labour in opposition would move to the left and open itself up. Thus, John Bridge and Stan Keable began to organise an entryist “marxist” platform called Labour Party Marxists. CPGB members in trade unions or involved in the anti-cuts movement did point out on numerous occasions that Labour isn’t moving left and isn’t actively drawing in the working class. This is for some very good reasons, most important is that the Labour Party is implementing savage cuts through councils across the country, channelling working class anger against the Labour Party, not into it. On a higher level they began to theorise that the Labour Party should be an instrument of implementing a socialist programme, in other words the British version of a soviet and a “permanent united-front”. In short, the repudiation of the split after the social democratic collapse into chauvinism of the First World War.

    Communist Students has been a project run and organised by two distinct methods. Firstly the group in Manchester and individuals in London sought to place CS at the heart of the struggles on campus and relating to working class actions beyond. The other approach taken up by the self-titled “veterans” of CS is akin to the passive approach of the CPGB majority. The latter has now led to the collapse of the organisation, whilst the former brought in several independent comrades creating a dynamic organisation. Our efforts have been consistently undermined, firstly CS was used by the CPGB to move a motion at the Labour Representation Committee about democratising Labour. It was a motion most CS members rejected and implied a political approach that the overwhelming majority of comrades opposed. This damaged the organisation as independent members lost confidence in whether they had a say in the direction of the organisation. Since leaving the CPGB this issue has again arisen with the leadership clique instigating a campaign of lies and bureaucratic provocations within CS. After writing a brief note on the Anticapitalist Initiative national meeting the website quickly became the property of the CPGB, who were a majority on the exec, and thus my access was removed on the orders of John Bridge, (3) next came the revelation that new members in the only active branch, Manchester, would not be able to vote at the next conference. They excused the latter internally by peddling a lie that Manchester would pack the conference in league with members of the Revolution youth group. This move was to produce a false CPGB majority within the organisation whilst cohering CPGB membership under the pretence that the organisation was “under siege.”

    The third dispute which is still ongoing is over how communists approach the Anticapitalist Initiative. This is being used to cover up for the real reasons why I and several comrades have left over the last 12 months. Several former and current members of the CPGB consider the initiative an interesting space for the left to reflect and clarify a common political project, whilst at the same time carrying out much needed common work. My understanding of communist work in such situations comes from a CPGB pamphlet called ‘Towards a Socialist Alliance party’ and many of the articles on the Socialist Alliance between 1998 to 2003 within the Weekly Worker. In my, and other younger members’, opinion our support and work within the Anticapitalist Initiative was part of the CPGB orthodoxy in such situations. For example, in 1998 the Weekly Worker reported that an “important idea to win in united front alliances such as the SAs was that there must be room for both a right and left wing.” (4) and in 1999 after an aggregate heard “a report on the Socialist Alliances and agreed to continue our campaign for a broad, inclusive Network.” (5) Their approach to the Anticapitalist Initiative is complete retreat, where instead of a positive intervention the CPGB leadership clique have embarked on a tactically inept attempt to discredit the initiative, through reporting on fantasy intrigues between the left groups involved.

    For me, the key question facing our movement is how to build a credible revolutionary alternative whilst strengthening the resistance. That answer can only be found if communist militants organise and debate with others in our movement. This means any organisation that doesn’t take seriously work at the base of the unions, within the anti-cuts movements or even in small unity projects is useless and an impediment on what needs to be done.

    Notes

    1 http://www.marxists.org/archive/drap...s/0-2souls.htm

    2 CPGB Members Report May 6 2012

    3 “The CS executive majority should take firm control of the site. Quickly.” – eCaucus 01/05/12

    4 Open Fight for Communism – Weekly Worker 249 (1998) http://www.cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=91606

    5 CPGB agrees perspectives – Weekly Worker 273 (1999) http://cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=90033
    The only school we learn at, is history; i.e. not the different representations of history that society may have produced, but the history made and lived by our class and by the exploited classes from the past – the history of their heroic, vital but also limited struggles that the proletariat will be finally capable of bringing to their ultimate term: communism. - Sylvia Pankhurst
  3. #23
    Join Date Nov 2009
    Location United Kingdom
    Posts 5,920
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    I think that's why DNZ advocates the creation of alternative culture. I also think you fall into the opposite trap that you are accusing DNZ of and could be seen as equally condescending. To make any so of claim that people aren't interested in things that would be considered academic requires a pretty negative view of the working class as bunch uneducated people who aren't interested in anything outside of feeding themselves and sports.

    The problem is that while these historical discussions are somewhat boring, when you are dealing with questions of organization and path for actions one needs to look back at what has been tried and what worked and didn't work. This isn't to say that the pre-war SPD model is the one we should start from, but your attitude seems to reject any amount of learning from the past.
    I was not meaning myself to come across as condescending. I was really just stating a true-ism. And that's not to condescend the working class, it is something that I have just observed in general. If you're not an academic, you're going to get bored of some level of academic discussion. I'm not an academic, I don't mind discussing philosophy/intellectually stimulating stuff but I would much rather spend my friday night down the pub with some mates or whatever.

    I should probably re-state my case a bit better: i'm not against some level of engagement in philosophy, and i'm certainly not agaisnt studying the past. Hell, i'm an historian myself. The key, however, is to relate it properly and meaningfully to today. I think you do that not by grabbing a generally obscure part of history and trying to relate it to current events to fit your own worldview (as DNZ very clearly does!), but to actually grab interesting historical events that do have some translatable meaning to today's events.

    I mean, i'm from London. I can think of no worse way to engage with my fellow working Londoners than to harp on about the historical message of Social Democracy in Germany, pre-war 1. I'd probably want to talk about Chartism, or the Suffragettes/Suffragists, or the Miners' strike, or Thatcherism. Obviously, if I were an American, i'd probably not talk about those things.

    What i'm trying to get at (and probably failing) is that you cannot intellectually fetishise one historical period/group, and extrapolate that to be the be-all/end-all. Good students of History have the transferrable skills to study a wide range of periods and adapt them to various views on the world today, including their own.

    History is NOT about re-hashing old, sectarian, failed ideas to fit your current ideas of how today and tomorrow in the world should be. That is not History, but crass partisanship.
  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Vladimir Innit Lenin For This Useful Post:


  5. #24
    Join Date Nov 2009
    Location United Kingdom
    Posts 5,920
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    The best part of Alternative Culture, comrade, is that it does cover the "feeding themselves and sports" aspect quite sufficiently (food banks and recreational clubs along with cultural societies and other institutions).



    <ANTI-PROPAGANDIST>But, wait, such strategic learning would have to involve learners, on the one hand, and secular "preachers" or "evangelists," on the other!</ANTI-PROPAGANDIST>
    Again, this shows you're so out of touch it's untrue. There are already recreational clubs, a multitude of them. And cultural societies and a wealth of institutions. They don't need to bow down to the renegade himself to do their job as recreational and culture organisations.

    You seem to honestly think that the local football club, the local working man's club and the village cricket club, as well as the university debating society, honestly need to re-organise themselves along your institutional, Social Democratic lines to be a 'success'. You've clearly little experience that organisations that run today are not failures, merely because they operate under the Capitalist system.
  6. #25
    Join Date Apr 2007
    Location Eisenach, Gotha, & Erfurt
    Posts 14,082
    Organisation
    Sympathizer re.: Communistisch Platform, WPA, and CPGB (PCC)
    Rep Power 81

    Default

    I never said that at all. Those apolitical organizations can go along as they wish. I'm saying that the left must organize along those institutional lines and politicize the class through the new institutions to be a success.

    I mean, i'm from London. I can think of no worse way to engage with my fellow working Londoners than to harp on about the historical message of Social Democracy in Germany, pre-war 1. I'd probably want to talk about Chartism, or the Suffragettes/Suffragists, or the Miners' strike, or Thatcherism. Obviously, if I were an American, i'd probably not talk about those things.
    The British "worker movement" doesn't have much in the way of real success stories to discuss. Even the American left is more successful, because those who founded the Socialist Labor Party and the Socialist Party were inspired by German organizing. The history of Labourism is that of a class bastard, even by the standards of Continental bourgeois worker parties, and should be shamed at every opportunity. By your logic, for the British workers only Chartism and perhaps the Suffragists should be discussed (let's not go anywhere near the SPGB or the Social-Democratic Federation, either).

    Heck, if there were a British Die Linke, Front de gauche, Left Bloc, SYRIZA, or whatever established and gaining momentum in the UK, I'd personally shunt aside all discussions about British "worker movement" history and say that the new "Continental" formation and its leadership are the best things to happen for British workers since sliced bread!

    [And yes, I'd stand up for them and encourage others to do so, too.]
    "A new centrist project does not have to repeat these mistakes. Nobody in this topic is advocating a carbon copy of the Second International (which again was only partly centrist)." (Tjis, class-struggle anarchist)

    "A centrist strategy is based on patience, and building a movement or party or party-movement through deploying various instruments, which I think should include: workplace organising, housing struggles [...] and social services [...] and a range of other activities such as sports and culture. These are recruitment and retention tools that allow for a platform for political education." (Tim Cornelis, left-communist)
  7. #26
    Join Date Nov 2009
    Location United Kingdom
    Posts 5,920
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    What do you mean when you say the left must organise along these institutional lines? Can you give me concrete examples of what sort of 'recreational clubs' would be involved in your 'alternative culture?'

    Working men's clubs, football clubs are not apolitical. They are the working class, and they are the future. You fail to understand this, preferring to restrict your idea of revolution to 'the party', the bureaucracy and those who are not, as you so condescendingly say, 'apolitical'. Politics can happen outside institutions, and often does.
  8. #27
    Tectonic Revolutionary Supporter
    Forum Moderator
    Global Moderator
    Join Date Aug 2006
    Posts 9,090
    Organisation
    Socialistische Partij (NL), Communistisch Platform
    Rep Power 137

    Default

    If interested there is a short article that responds to some of the issues Mike raised: http://thecommune.co.uk/2012/05/29/w...utionary-left/
    This probably deserves its own thread comrade.
    I think, thus I disagree. | Chairperson of a Socialist Party branch
    Marxist Internet Archive | Communistisch Platform
    Working class independence - Internationalism - Democracy
    Educate - Agitate - Organise
  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Q For This Useful Post:


  10. #28
    Let the dead bury the dead. Committed User
    Forum Moderator
    Join Date Aug 2008
    Location Terra Incognita
    Posts 5,073
    Organisation
    Bolshevik Penpals Society
    Rep Power 78

    Default

    I never said that at all. Those apolitical organizations can go along as they wish. I'm saying that the left must organize along those institutional lines and politicize the class through the new institutions to be a success.



    The British "worker movement" doesn't have much in the way of real success stories to discuss. Even the American left is more successful, because those who founded the Socialist Labor Party and the Socialist Party were inspired by German organizing. The history of Labourism is that of a class bastard, even by the standards of Continental bourgeois worker parties, and should be shamed at every opportunity. By your logic, for the British workers only Chartism and perhaps the Suffragists should be discussed (let's not go anywhere near the SPGB or the Social-Democratic Federation, either).

    Heck, if there were a British Die Linke, Front de gauche, Left Bloc, SYRIZA, or whatever established and gaining momentum in the UK, I'd personally shunt aside all discussions about British "worker movement" history and say that the new "Continental" formation and its leadership are the best things to happen for British workers since sliced bread!

    [And yes, I'd stand up for them and encourage others to do so, too.]
    I am sure the working class, sorry "worker class", would rejoice in celebration to know that the forces of social-proletocracy is "standing up" for them. Would it be compulsory or optional to stand up?
    "I want to say sweet, silly things." - V.I Lenin

Similar Threads

  1. Capitalism and the Buisness Cycle
    By BobKKKindle$ in forum News & Ongoing Struggles
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 20th April 2006, 16:25
  2. kondratieff cycle
    By Eoin Dubh in forum Learning
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 22nd March 2006, 03:16

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Tags for this Thread