lack of interest

[Nickademus]

you know i'm at the protests in ottawa this weekend and no one here seems to give a shit about what is going on. if anyone is interested in knowing say so here and if, when i get back from the protests, people care, i'll let you know what happened

gee those of you who have been *****ing about lack of militarism should at least be interested in knowing what the fuck is going on

[Kez]

no comrade was *****in, so dont fuck anyone off.

first ive heard of a protest in ottowa,
and just coz u claim to have gone, wtf do you want a gold medal?

och, my apologies, dunno what came over me,
anyway, how did it go, how many cops did u bash?

comrade kamo

[RedCeltic]

I take it you two still don't get along...

Yes... tell us how it went.

[sabre]

I would love to go to some protests but there never are any here in pittsburgh and i cant drive yet [to other ones]

how did it go?

[TheGranma]

I'll be going to London next year for the May Day protests, it's also going to be part of my Corporate Power and Backlash project for Photography too!!

[RedCeltic]

Kamo...

Damn I told myself I was going to ignore your comment, but... with a few beers in me... well....

Your comment about bashing cops heads in is disturbing to me. If you actually make lt to a protest, you will see that most are not like what you see on CNN.

It disturbs me that you think the only way you can make a statement is by bashing someone's head in. Sometimes that turns more people off than anything elce.

I'm paraphrasing something Gooddoctor said to you on this very subject... but... you go bash a cop's head in, and see how far you get... while you sit in jail, I'll be out in the streets protesting within the law.

I'm sorry to attack you Kamo as I respect your opinons... but becoming a criminal will achieve nothing.

[RedCeltic]

Just to make my point clear here... I'm going to do quote something Vox said in the Commie Club, I'm sure Vox wouldn't mind...

"I do not believe that initiating violence is a good thing. I want to be very clear on that.

However, when the riot police start cracking heads, is fighting back violence or is it self-definse? "

One needs to fight back when attacked surely, but don't go to a protest, march, whatever with the intention of bashing heads.

I talked to Nickadermus earlier today anyway, she said the cops where there but far away blocking the streets in squad cars. And it was a peaceful demenstration.


(Edited by RedCeltic at 12:15 am on Nov. 18, 2001)

[DaNatural]

ive been reading alot of leon trotsky lately, and what he preaches most, is organized forces. not a bunch of idiots whipping bottles and cops and breaking mcdonalds windows. this is not going to do shit for us and will only make things worse. we need to fight as a force against a system. and that does not mean physically. we need more organizations, unions, peaceful protests, strikes. things that will get attention. not bullshit like this. one thing we gotta realize is that things like this dont make things better, it makes them worse. cus now were looked at as little crooks, and always remember that the government has more firepower then the people, so we will lose. peace

[RedCeltic]

Good points DeNateral Thank you Comrade... Peace.

[Freiheit]

The higher class trys to keep the poor dumm. They try to get their support and they do not want, of course, that their communists. So the higher class makes a lot of propaganda against communism.
If there is a communist riot that destroys everthing and fight against policemen, the higher, controlling class can use all this stuff for their propaganda. And beat up policemen is against any ideals of communism, we must show that we are a friendly and good. Then if the people begins to listen to us, they will learn that we are right and that this capitalistic system sucks.

[Nickademus]

sorry for not getting this written earlier but i've been a little busy.

accordingy to newspaper articles from the area, the protests included violence (not much) and tear gas, police dogs etc. I did not see any of that. The papers also estimate almost 2000 people present. well obviously there were groups protesting in different areas because i was at the Supreme Court of Canada and only saw about 300 people.

To help this story you have to know a bit about the geography of OTtawa. It is built around 3 large river. One group of protesters was starting at the university of ottawa which is on the opposite side of one canal (man made) than the supreme court of canada. Therefore, ,at some point, these protesters had to cross a bridge.

The planned route was to take laurier st, which is where the department of national defence is. I was trying to get from the side of the court house on to the side of the canal where the university was. upon getting to the end of the street i was met with about 25 riot cops in full gear. they were refusing to let protesters thru. The forced those of us who trying to go the opposite direction of the protesters back to the other side of the canal. but here, i saw no violence. the protesters simply stood there, proclaiming that they weren't going anywhere (btw they incidentally blocked a shitload of traffic coming off a main highway). Luckily there is a set of spiral stairs on the bridge which allows you to get off the bridge on the opposite side of the canal. I then had to jump a waist high barrier to get to the other side and climb an extremely steep but small hill. Once on the other side, the protesters started moving down to the next bridge (which incidentally had been closed for 2 days already). at this point, the riot police started letting non-protest people thru the lines. after most of the protesters had moved to the next bridge, the riot police simply turned their backs and let everyone else thru.

the same shit happened at the next bridge (mcKenzie King) which goes past eatons and the rideau centre (a large shopping mall). However, here the protesters were not forced to go to another bridge and were eventually let thru. makes no sense why they would allow protesters thru where there were large business and not past a fairly empty street (laurier)

anyway, they had more riot police and barricades set up at other posts where the protesters didn't even show up. it was amusing (cops can be so silly at times)

upon getting to the SCC (Supreme Court) things again were quite peaceful. People had written all over, some in spray paint but mostly in chalk. now this area of ottawa is all the large business, i.e. bank of canada, large law firms etc. One of my favourite slogans "oh canada, our home ON native land . .. . "

anyway at the SCC people were signing, doing speaches etc. but all in all it was peaceful. (lots of god looking protesters )

i had to leave at 1300 but at that point i had seen no tear gas etc. the riot police where there but they were standinng around the corners of buildings, chatting with each other. they were not intimidating in any way shape or form. they did have the dogs there but they were left in the trucks. a large portion of the cops weren't even in riot gear. some cops were placed a couple of blocks away from the protest to block off traffic. these cops were even helpful to protesters who were looking for food etc.

again, i've heard reports of violence etc. but i did not see it. apparently tear gas was used at some point, someone was bit by a police dog and 14 people were arrested yesterday, but they weren't near me.

for more info go to www.ottawacitizen.com

any questions, feel free to ask, i'll try to answer them

cheers
nickademus

(Edited by Nickademus at 4:32 pm on Nov. 18, 2001)

[Kez]

to redceltic (and others who think im a cop killa)
in my defence when i think about protests i think about last years mayday london riots when police basically were taking the piss outta protesters to the extent that they wouldnt let them out for a piss even women had to squatt and piss in front of everyone else.
even when comrades tried to break free without actually initiating any vilence towards the police, the police use batons to keep the protesters in. then and only then would i fight, and even then i wouldnt seriously injure a cop,just make them immobile for an hour or too, then go onto the next one.
the whole point of a protest is not to go cop bashing, that would defy all logic, because thats not why people go, people go for a cause, be it cnd be it anti capitalist whatever. maybe i should of been more clearer before, but it was only a light hearted comment , as was teh rest of the post. peace (even cops are humans)

comrade kamo


(Edited by TavareeshKamo at 9:07 pm on Nov. 18, 2001)

[Nickademus]

okay today people were protesting the apparently 20 people who have been arrested the last two days. they started at the ottawa courthouse but were pushed up towards parliament where they were shoved into a bottleneck. the riot police were present but left. rcmp have been standing off with protesters but are gradually getting farther and farther back (the protesters however, can't go any closer because of metal barriers). protesters are throwing balloons and paper at the police and thats it. everyone is pretty peaceful. the cops are taking pictures of the protesters so they can keep track of the people that are always at protests etc. (CSIS is becoming like the CIA). anyway. there are onlly a few gas masks in site. there are NOT 2000 people there. more like 200 people.

there are a lot of tourists going to check out what's going on. the media are right on the front lines with the proteseters. people have brought their kids and thier babies.

apparently yesterday during the march froma nother rally point some people were bit by dogs because the police created a bottleneck whereby only one person could pass at any one time.

also at one point yesterday all the protesters were surrounded by riot police during a rally at the human rights monument. one protester, however, was on the ouside of the ring of cops and was actually allowed into the protest when she politely asked a cop if she could get in.

all in all, very peaceful, some very creative protesters. and its a much nicer day today so i think people will be there much longer today. its not being covered in the news much other than really saying that its no quebec city. and its not. yesterday when a few protesters threw stones etc at the cops the rest of the protesters booed them until they stopped. very good example of how protests should be.

cheers comrades

[El Commandante]

Quote: from Nickademus on 8:38 pm on Nov. 18, 2001

all in all, very peaceful, some very creative protesters. and its a much nicer day today so i think people will be there much longer today. its not being covered in the news much other than really saying that its no quebec city. and its not. yesterday when a few protesters threw stones etc at the cops the rest of the protesters booed them until they stopped. very good example of how protests should be.

cheers comrades

Sounds like a very good protest, well done to all involved for keeping peaceful when confronted by the police. The ideal way for a protest to be carried out. Like the one in London today, a brilliant atmospere, no problems, police didn't interfere people listened and voices were heard. A very good day.

Solidarity

[Freiheit]

Quote: from Nickademus on 10:46 am on Nov. 17, 2001
you know i'm at the protests in ottawa this weekend and no one here seems to give a shit about what is going on. if anyone is interested in knowing say so here and if, when i get back from the protests, people care, i'll let you know what happened

gee those of you who have been *****ing about lack of militarism should at least be interested in knowing what the fuck is going on

you must see from Alberta, it is pretty far to Ottawa, 4 hours in a airplane, and first i would have to drive 3 hours to Edmonton.

[RedCeltic]

the whole point of a protest is not to go cop bashing, that would defy all logic, because thats not why people go, people go for a cause, be it cnd be it anti capitalist whatever. maybe i should of been more clearer before, but it was only a light hearted comment , as was teh rest of the post. peace (even cops are humans)

That's all I wanted to point out there Kamo, I just wasn't sure if it was in jest or not.

[Nickademus]

i didn't expect anyone from a distance to comee. we had talked about the protest in the practice forum of the website. for those who don't know, ottawa is the capital of canada and this paast weekend, the g20, imf and world bank meetings took place in ottawa. surprisingly everyoneknew about seattle etc.
anyway i'm sorry if i pissed people off

[gooddoctor]

i didn't know any of that. you see how they divide us? well, i guess that the only way is to think globally and act locally until our communications are better. keep up the good work nick, and i'll help keep the bastards in check when they arrive over here. like at brussels d14, the european commission meeting is going to be immense.
on the subject of violence, i watched the genoa video on the coach on the way down to the demo in london yesterday. i knew there was violence and that carlo giuliani was shot dead, but the reality was harsher than anything i expected. when i heard people talking about the italian police behaving like the brown shirts or something i thought it was just rhetoric but it's not. they were fucking brutal and indiscriminate. the photos of carlo were the worst. he was cornered by a police van and ordered to put down whatever he was carrying. he did and began to get up with his arms held out, but before he could leave he was shot in the eye. there were loads of people around but the police just marched over the body and blocked it from view. i heard about a group of activists who were squating in a disused school. the pigs raided it one night and beat and tortured everyone before dragging them off to prison. they were all released without charge. they were just trying to scare people out of not coming, but when people heard about carlo they began to flock in in solidarity. train loads all over italy. they radcalised millions of people around italy, you can see this by the scale of their anti-war protests since genoa.
i also saw journalists filming themselves getting the absolute shit kicked out of them and people lying on the floor, not doing anything but being beaten. the most important thing to do in this situation in my opinion is to protect yourself (cover your head, curl up into a ball) but don't fight back. scream out things like "why are you doing this to me?!" and try to sound like a victim. it is such a powerful statement and good propaganda - watch the ghandi movie if you want to know what this looks like and how powerful and emotional it is. don't fight back whatever you do. the pigs never work alone, wear armour, hid their faces with masks and wield weapons. they basically have the power to do whatever the fuck they want to us because the government would be happy to see us scared off. it is a fight that you cannot win and if you fight back you put yourself at extreme risk. however, if you take my advice, the police look like fascists (which is simply the truth) and the activist looks like the victim (again the truth).
think of yourself as a martyre to the cause. it is unlikely, after genoa, that there will be any more murder until the revolution, so you will have to sustain a quick beating. but there is nothing you can do about that if you're victimised so best to get it over and done and atleast try and make the most of it. don't let your emotion get the better of you, think of the cause and the greater good.