Questions on Hitler

[Sinister Intents]

I've been doing reading on the Nazi's and there beliefs. Gathering as much knowledge as I can on Fascism and its tendencies. I started doing reading on Hitler and I found an archaeologica.org page that said he had a 'Messiah Complex' and while reading I found a page that talked about how he did cocaine and had 'semen' injections. I've also heard from my dad that he used to make leather out of people that he and his regime considered subhuman. I read on the horrors of the holocaust, some things I knew some I didn't. My question is what did his regime have leather made out of people, leather used to make furniture and such?, Did they cannibalize the people they killed. Also I want peoples opinions of this article http://www.archaeorama.com/history/p...ssiah-complex/.

[W1N5T0N]

Nazis eating Jews? They were fucked up, but I sincerely doubt this. Its not like german people had a history of cannibalism...and i think the leather thing would have been extremely rare, maybe a handful of psycho guards in deathcamps.

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

I suggest you read this: http://libcom.org/library/auschwitz-big-alibi

I don´t think there were any recorded cases of cannibalism during the holocaust. At least not by the nazis. The nazis used the skin of the holocaust victims for lampshades and various other commodities. First they dehumanized the victims as much as they could, then they tried to overwork them to death and eventually just murder them on a mass scale. They used the jews they intended to exterminate for commodity production and using their skin as raw material for commodities was part of that.
The main objective of the nazis was to murder or "eject from the production process" people whom the crisis ridden capitalism in Germany had no use for at the time. Hitler and the nazis created various myths and fantasies to obscure their motives, justify their struggle for power and later their governmental policies. As always when politicians create such mythologies it is always difficult to say whether they believe in it themselves or not. Mainly those fantasies and myths are just useful tools in stirring up the collective frenzy the fascists need to get to power.

[gorillafuck]

I started doing reading on Hitler and I found an archaeologica.org page that said he had a 'Messiah Complex' and while reading I found a page that talked about how he did cocaine and had 'semen' injections.

hitler used some hard drugs, I think. but he definitely did not have semen injections, and nazis were not cannibals.

edit: yeah, Hitler used meth (according to wikipedia).

[Bostana]

Well yes,
They're a number of Nazi Cults that believe in Hitler as their messiah. They gather this from the Aryan being the super race to conquer everything and return what 'belongs' to the white man. And they believe that Hitler is the 'man' to 'lead' their conquest.

....And people think Scientology is a crazy religion

[Magón]

Irma Grese, is the person famed for having lampshades made out of human skin. In the Bergen-Belsen camp I think it was. She didn't eat the victims of that though.

[Offbeat]

They also used human hair for things like fabric and rope.

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

Well yes,
They're a number of Nazi Cults that believe in Hitler as their messiah. They gather this from the Aryan being the super race to conquer everything and return what 'belongs' to the white man. And they believe that Hitler is the 'man' to 'lead' their conquest.

....And people think Scientology is a crazy religion

Are there nazi- cults today who want to bring Hitler back from the dead? idk, most neo- nazis today seem more to be responding to contemporary issues and situations than it all just being about some Hitler worship. Fascism/nazism isn´t a religion; it´s a political ideology with some shitloads of mythology and mystification. But of course, there can be a fine line between political ideologies and religion, especially the more obscure ones.

[Robespierres Neck]

Hitler and his army would inject methamphetamine, not cocaine. He claimed it boosted their performance on the battlefield. I don't think the semen and cannibalization bit is true...

[Fennec]

I suggest you read this: http://libcom.org/library/auschwitz-big-alibi

Shame on you for posting this horrific article.

The Holocaust is a historically unique event, industralisation of genocide and total dehumanisation: human beings were boiled into soap, their hair made into pillows, their bones into fertiliser. The Holocaust in Hungary began after D-Day: while Nazis were loosing the war, they were wasting their resources on genocide. Read Primo Levi, read the Gerstein Report, visit the death camps.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

Irma Grese, a concentration camp guard, often liked to savage inmates with her half starved german shepards. Cannibalise though? No, I highly doubt it.

(edit: whups, Nin beat me to the punch. Different stuff though, so I won't delete this post)

[Luc]

If your're interested with Hitler's relationship to the occult (the mesiah complex related) then I suggest The Nostradamus Effect: Hitler's Blood Oath

If you can get past all the apocalypse stuff than there is some stuff about Hitler's messiah like views or whatever. Basicaly National Socialism as a religion and what not

[Zealot]

He may have had a "Messiah Complex" but the rest of those claims sound so incredible that I don't know whether to believe you and cry or just have a great big laugh at how stupid it sounds:

"So kids, that's basically what happened during World War Two: Hitler and his army pumped themselves up on meth and semen and then went on to create lampshades, leather and soap out of skin;hair into mattresses, rope, fabric, clothing and pillows; and bones into fertiliser. Then, of course, after all that work they felt a bit peckish so they set aside some bodies and made them into a meal. Next week in class we'll learn about Pol Pot."

while Nazis were loosing the war, they were wasting their resources on genocide.

The Nazis sound as though they were pretty fucking resourceful. It also sounds like a very, very good plot for a Hollywood horror likely to make billions of dollars for being so batshit insane.

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

I don't know. You can try to come up with a psychological profile of Hitler, and those that followed him, but I think it is a big distraction (and I'm a psychologist). The psychology is speculative, the politics and history are not. For the record if Hitler supped on the poop of death camp victims and swam in their piss, it would not make him any more abhorrent.

[Zulu]

Shame on you for posting this horrific article.

The Holocaust is a historically unique event, industralisation of genocide and total dehumanisation: human beings were boiled into soap, their hair made into pillows, their bones into fertiliser. The Holocaust in Hungary began after D-Day: while Nazis were loosing the war, they were wasting their resources on genocide. Read Primo Levi, read the Gerstein Report, visit the death camps.

Intensification of the Holocaust after the D-Day only shows that it was a last ditch effort by the Nazis to amp up production - not wasting resources, but mobilizing them, namely the slave labor force of the Jews, POWs and others. The so called death camps were supposed to be labor camps. Of course, mortality was very high, just because the Nazis were working the prisoners to death (capitalism to the max). But the mortality rates peaked in the last weeks of the prisoners' captivity actually (when the gas chambers were supposedly being dismantled), and that was due to starvation, as the German economy had completely collapsed in the winter of 1945 and there were simply no food supplies to be shipped to the camps. Some smaller camps' administration and guard simply deserted and the prisoners stayed unattended for weeks until the Soviet troops took hold of the surrounding territory.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I don't think we can argue that there was a material reason for the camps in the sense of a direct economic incentive. I think when ghettoization and restrictions on rights and mobility began it was for the reasons that Panglossian argued: a scapegoat and a kind of new caste division which could cynically rally "Aryan" Germans and give a false sense of ethnic economic stability.

The final solution and the camps weren't primarily for slave-labor, I think they were just getting desperate in part. I think it was more ideological and really the only rationale the NAZI regime had left to garner support for a regime that was obviously loosing - so it kind of took on a sick horrible logic of it's own leading to really only one conclusion: elimination. A lot of "war-crimes" happen this way IMO - if the regime wins the war, atrocities can either be blamed on low-ranking people or just covered up - you don't want to be the military leader in charge when your side looses and you're caught with a camp of POW's you've been torturing - so often the POWs are executed instead. The holocaust is obviously much different in scale and context, but I think there was a similar dynamic where they had just gone too far and placed too much ideological importance to simply turn around and release everyone: "oops, you know how we started this really destructive war on the pretense of creating a "pure" German nation - well we can't really afford this racial segregation policy anymore given the circumstances".

[Zulu]

I think it was more ideological and really the only rationale the NAZI regime had left to garner support for a regime

Problem: the Nazis concealed and downplayed the existence of the concentration camps and the extent of what's happening there from the general populace. That's on the official record of the Nuremberg trials.

Although there was a practice of selling the "Ostarbeiters" as slaves to German industrialists and whoever else could pay, and how they were treated was up to their masters.

It was just business, really.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Problem: the Nazis concealed and downplayed the existence of the concentration camps and the extent of what's happening there from the general populace. That's on the official record of the Nuremberg trials.

Although there was a practice of selling the "Ostarbeiters" as slaves to German industrialists and whoever else could pay, and how they were treated was up to their masters.

It was just business, really.

Well I didn't mean the German general population, I meant the NAZIs. I'm not an expert on this and frankly I tend to avoid "Hiterology" because in the US it's this weird fetishized thing of constantly pouring over the crimes of the NAZIs in shitty History Chanel Documentaries and pop-history paperbacks. But I can't imagine that the camps were ever a "profitable" enterprise - a lot of the experimentation and cruelty and so on seems to have been done in a ad-hoc and desperate way whereas the imprisonment system was horrifically scientific and methodical. It really seems to me that they locked a whole bunch of people up and really didn't know what to do with them so sometimes they marched them to death, sometimes worked them to death and in the end just methodically exterminated people. If it was just business, why kill your free labor, why let people starve and freeze if you want them to work - why lock up people who can't work? If it was business why did the camps ramp-up the deaths as the opposing armies drew nearer?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Intensification of the Holocaust after the D-Day only shows that it was a last ditch effort by the Nazis to amp up production - not wasting resources, but mobilizing them, namely the slave labor force of the Jews, POWs and others. The so called death camps were supposed to be labor camps. Of course, mortality was very high, just because the Nazis were working the prisoners to death (capitalism to the max). But the mortality rates peaked in the last weeks of the prisoners' captivity actually (when the gas chambers were supposedly being dismantled), and that was due to starvation, as the German economy had completely collapsed in the winter of 1945 and there were simply no food supplies to be shipped to the camps. Some smaller camps' administration and guard simply deserted and the prisoners stayed unattended for weeks until the Soviet troops took hold of the surrounding territory.

Not necessarily. Remember that the Nazis had *devoted death camps* which were not work camps. These places had the famous poison gas showers.

Even so, the amount of resources being spent to transport Jews from point a to point b which could have been transporting soldiers and war material. It actually caused serious problems for Nazi logistics. It would have been much more economical to leave the Jews in the ghetto and use the resources they did have than ship Jews around to kill them and transporting slave labor around.

I don't know. You can try to come up with a psychological profile of Hitler, and those that followed him, but I think it is a big distraction (and I'm a psychologist). The psychology is speculative, the politics and history are not. For the record if Hitler supped on the poop of death camp victims and swam in their piss, it would not make him any more abhorrent.

People have a bad habit of trying to pathologize those whose psychology they can't understand. This of course is a really bad habit in that it always leads to a failure to really understand the causes of these events.

Problem: the Nazis concealed and downplayed the existence of the concentration camps and the extent of what's happening there from the general populace. That's on the official record of the Nuremberg trials.

Although there was a practice of selling the "Ostarbeiters" as slaves to German industrialists and whoever else could pay, and how they were treated was up to their masters.

It was just business, really.

The slave labor wasn't that cost effective, and remember that only a portion of holocaust victims ever became slave labor. While BMW and Mercedes made money selling slave-made cars, many, many people were not getting sent to these slave labor camps but were going straight to the death camps.

It was just business to the CEOs dealing with the Nazis, but it was much more to the Nazis themselves.

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

I don't think we can argue that there was a material reason for the camps in the sense of a direct economic incentive. I think when ghettoization and restrictions on rights and mobility began it was for the reasons that Panglossian argued: a scapegoat and a kind of new caste division which could cynically rally "Aryan" Germans and give a false sense of ethnic economic stability.

The final solution and the camps weren't primarily for slave-labor, I think they were just getting desperate in part. I think it was more ideological and really the only rationale the NAZI regime had left to garner support for a regime that was obviously loosing - so it kind of took on a sick horrible logic of it's own leading to really only one conclusion: elimination. A lot of "war-crimes" happen this way IMO - if the regime wins the war, atrocities can either be blamed on low-ranking people or just covered up - you don't want to be the military leader in charge when your side looses and you're caught with a camp of POW's you've been torturing - so often the POWs are executed instead. The holocaust is obviously much different in scale and context, but I think there was a similar dynamic where they had just gone too far and placed too much ideological importance to simply turn around and release everyone: "oops, you know how we started this really destructive war on the pretense of creating a "pure" German nation - well we can't really afford this racial segregation policy anymore given the circumstances".

Well yes, but I would also want to emphasize the totally irrational aspect of the Nazis' extermination of the Jews. That is part and parcel of the their mythical/mystical ideology -- a supremely decadent variant of capitalism -- of course we see much of this kind of mystical claptrap nowadays too. But not necessarily layered on top of fascism.